Question from Bubsy:
Are we actually cursed? Hear me out:
Last year, our car got hit 5 times while it was parked! I could see this happening once or even twice, but 5 times????
This year our car got dinged twice in parking lots, many many oil repairs, yesterday a person driving next to us made a lane change and swiped us, then today a stone hit our car, and broke the windshield. We just cannot catch a break. All our religious friends say it is a curse.
Answer by SmartLX:
Your religious friends would do well to check whether there is even such a thing as a curse of the right kind in their doctrines. They do exist in Christianity for instance, being powered by the devil so to speak, but simply accepting Jesus is protection enough that you can never be affected. (See here.) So if you’re religious yourself you can answer the question of whether it even CAN be a curse in your worldview.
If you’re getting hit a lot while parked, there are all kinds of obvious questions about where you park, how big your car is, your own driving skills, etc. Similar practical considerations can significantly affect the probabilities of all your other misfortunes. The recurring oil issue for example is down to the condition of your car and the competence (and ethics) of your regular mechanic. All up you’ve mentioned a total of nine events over two years (not counting the oil thing) which could of course be explained by pure bad luck, or some bad luck combined with poor general attitudes to driving in your area.
From a statistical perspective, someone who serves as an outlier (i.e. getting “favoured” way more than the average) is always going to wonder whether something special is going on, but in the vast population of motorists there are almost certain to be some outliers at any given time. (What are the chances that no one in the whole country will be super unlucky?) The chances of winning the lottery are incredibly slim, but there’s regularly a jackpot winner from somewhere (though they really come up against the odds when it comes to winning a second time).
My advice is simply to continue to drive and park with care, and if no one is actually out there gunning for you, you’ll eventually tend towards the average rate of car-damaging events, whatever that is. I tried to look it up but there aren’t many statistics outside of fatal accidents.
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Curses are more from people who don’t realize that God is not in the business of cursing anyone.
He wants to save. And if you look carefully at the “curses”, God is not making them happen. He is pointing out what will happen, without Him in our lives.
It is like a person who is told to watch out. If he does not watch out he may end up in a wreck or in a ditch. A parent that tells their child to not go in the street, is not saying that if he disobeys, that the parent will put that child in the street to get hit. The parent is saying don’t go so that he won’t be hit.
God simply is warning us that there are things that He can mitigate, if we trust in Him. Things like the things that He gives us to eat and not eat, in Leviticus 11. It is so good to see the health communities catch with what God had given to His people thousands of years ago. Now many, even if they were sick, are now living healthier lives because of eating healthier.
Exodus 15:26 is a good verse to consider.
Just because other nations were plagued by sickness was not because God was cursing them. In fact, when someone does not know of God’s will, God does not hold them responsible. It is for the ones that know, but refuse to obey, that God will deal with.
Consider Jonah. When God told him to go to Nineveh, Jonah, knew God’s will yet refused. And God had to prod Him a little. But lovingly. Because God knew that the Ninevites were in trouble. And He wanted to give them the opportunity to be saved.
So God is doing for each and every one of us. He wants us to know that He loves and that He wants to save us from the death that is imminent should we reject Him.
But He can only offer.
Gerald writes: [Curses are more from people who don’t realize that God is not in the business of cursing anyone. He wants to save. And if you look carefully at the “curses”, God is not making them happen. He is pointing out what will happen, without Him in our lives.]
Bearing false witness again Gerald? Tsk tsk, I thought that was a no-no…
Deuteronomy 5:9 “You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me”. (Same thing in Exodus 5 by the way)
Not only is that a curse, it’s a curse against future generations who had nothing to do with the present but are being made responsible for it anyway. What a loving, caring, wanting to save god you pray to!
Deuteronomy 28:47-48 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joyfulness and gladness of heart, because of the abundance of all things, therefore you shall serve your enemies whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger and thirst, in nakedness, and lacking everything. And he will put a yoke of iron on your neck until he has destroyed you.”
Sounds like a curse to me.
Leviticus 26:14-46 “But if you will not listen to me and will not do all these commandments, if you spurn my statutes, and if your soul abhors my rules, so that you will not do all my commandments, but break my covenant, then I will do this to you: I will visit you with panic, with wasting disease and fever that consume the eyes and make the heart ache. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. I will set my face against you, and you shall be struck down before your enemies. Those who hate you shall rule over you, and you shall flee when none pursues you. And if in spite of this you will not listen to me, then I will discipline you again sevenfold for your sins,”
Oh yeah. Curse city going on here.
Your god even cursed every single one of us, didn’t it Gerald? All because a couple of young kids ate a piece of fruit off a tree in some pretend garden. We all carry the curse of that action, don’t we, even though none of us had anything to do with it. I feel the love in that Gerald. Do you?
Your god does more than warn. It curses and punishes, quite often and out of proportion to the crime. You know this of course, but my how you choose to ignore it so often in your posts at asktheatheist.com
EINSTEIN said and proved that given the large enough number of incidences and time, ANYTHING can happen.
The history of the Universe proves just THAT.
Gerald, PLEASE don’t speak to ME. You unnerve me. Thank you very much.
What history of the Universe? Which one of the supposed many? Yours or mine or who ever else’s?
What we know of the history is what WE have done in our life time. We know very little of the history of the Universe. We speculate as to how it was formed. But we have never actually put this speculation to the test. (we haven’t formed our own, in a test tube). We have names for this or that but we don’t know where the, this’s or that’s came from. All is speculation.
Now are YOU happy? I hope this helps.
listen YOU, FOOL. in aristotelian logic both god and universe from nothing are impossible. nothing can become of nothing, so this includes your ‘god’, not only energy and matter
so far so good
but, since it is evident that energy and matter EXIST, the starting premise seems to be no good, because either something preceded energy and matter, or it become out of nothing.
i know, i know, you will say that ‘god’ caused energy and matter to appear out of something, i.e. of it, the ‘god’
it would be fine IF ONLY you yourself and all theists don’t claim that nothing can become out of nothing…science does not claim something like that, then what follows that neither your ‘god’ could exist without anything previously caused it to appear in existence.
conclusion, there is no god, you are actually saying this by saying that nothing can become out of nothing, ONLY YOU EXCLUDE YOUR ‘GOD’ FROM THAT GENERAL RULE, THAT SCIENCE DOES NOT SUPPORT, REMEMBER.
SO, THERE IS NO GOD TO HAVE CAUSED ENERGY TO APPEAR IN EMPTY SPACE.
so far so good
OR YOU WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT SOMETHING .C A N. BECOME OUT OF NOTHING.
SCIENCE WILL AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT ONE.
so we are on the starting position that ‘there is obviously energy and matter, but there is not obviously ‘god’, we atheists and science will have to examine WHICH IS IT THAT IS THERE WITHOUT PREVIOUS CAUSE, ‘GOD’ OR ENERGY. BOTH OF THEM HAVING APPEARED WITHOUT THEIR FIRST PREVIOUS CAUSE.
WE ARE NOW ON EQUAL POSITION, NEITHER OF US NEED PREVIOUS CAUSE FOR ITS EXISTENCE, NOR YOUR GOD’ NOR OUR ENERGY AND MATTER.
but…
your definition of ‘god’ is that it is a power that has intelligence will and aim, purpose, goal…to create the material world out of nothing and then humans from matter too.
you are very stupid, the lot of you, because powers don’t and cannot have these properties, intelligence will and purpose aim and goal to do this or that IN ORDER TO… hahaha
WHILE SCIENCE KNOWS THAT ENERGY HAS NO SUCH THINGS IN IT, INTELLIGENCE WILL AND INTENT TO DO SOMETHING IN ORDER TO…WHATEVER.
SUCH PROPERTIES ARE POSSIBLE TO BE PRESENT ONLY AND SOLELY IN MATERIAL BRAINS. THAT IS OF MOST INTELLIGENT ANIMALS AND US HUMANS.
THIS IS THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR NOTION OF ‘GOD’ AND ENERGY OF SCIENCE, BOTH WITHOUT THEIR PREVIOUS CAUSES. BUT SINCE IDEAS POWERS IMMATERIAL NOTIONS AS ‘GOD’ IS CANNOT HAVE THESE, THEN FOLLOWS THAT THERE IS NO GOD, WHILE THERE IS ENERGY, CAUSED BY NOTHING.
IT SIMPLY I S. JUST AS YOUR IMAGINARY ‘GOD’ BUT WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE WILL INTENT PURPOSE GOAL TO DO THIS AND THAT
IT BEHAVES DRIVEN BY THE LAWS OF MATTER, THAT IS ONE OF THE FORMS OF ENERGY
———————-
DON’T YOU REMEMBER THAT I FORBID YOU TO ADDRESS ME.
SO SHUT UP WILL YOU PLEASE THANKS A LOT
And you still have it wrong. God is not a power. He is all powerful. He has the power to create. That is how we got here.
You again, paint yourself in a corner, by stating that “a power can not create”, but you don’t seem to mind that believing that mindless chemicals, or that a nothing is able to design and make life that is beyond anything that we have been able to invent. Life that is even beyond our imagination to even understand.
Why is this logic, seemingly beyond your understanding? Why is it that you can not realize what you are saying is in itself contradictory to what you are saying you believe. Why.
That is exactly why I told you before, that either life has always been, as it is, or that an Intelligence designed and created life. Not that it happened all by itself.
silence, no one wants to hear you be sure
What we know of the universe is quite a bit more than what each one of us has personally experienced. Our scientific understanding of things is constantly evolving and updating, but one thing it isn’t is lacking. We have plenty of questions still, and who knows how much more there is to discover, but the amount of things we now understand about this universe is amazing.
One thing a good scientific theory does is make testable predictions. The theories about the universe predicted we still needed to find a particle. We did (Higgs Boson). The theories predicted there should be waves in the fabric of spacetime when massive bodies collide. There are, and we’ve found them too (gravity waves). If it was speculation we wouldn’t have empirical evidence and data like the CMB and the expansion of the universe leading us to theories that predict the Higgs and gravity waves.
What’s most delicious in all this of course is your blatant double standard. You want a universe in a test tube, yet you don’t demand that someone create a god in a test tube. You want data and answers for everything, yet have no data for the existence of gods. Yet you believe in your god entity and act like it’s an unquestionable fact. Your inability to remain consistent and honest in your application of demands exposes your fraudulent inequality of standards.
You are quite the charlatan, Gerald…
Niki, I find it intriguing, that you find it so easy to theorize that God could not come from nothing but you would still accept the possibility that life could have come from nothing.
Don’t you admit that this is somewhat hypocritical, or at the very least, prejudiced?
I’m sorry for my antagonizing statements. I see that this is personal. But, we are only talking about what we believe. I am hoping that the evidence would be clear enough and simple enough to show you that what you have been told. What you are believing, (without any evidence, I might add), is purely a lie. There is no proof. Evolutionists themselves have said as much.
You want to blow off the testimonies of those who did, but there is far more evidence than this. You want to blow this off. But judging from your, undoubtedly more controlled demeanor that you are using today, you seem to know that what I am presenting is true. And yet you refuse to accept what you are seeing is true. Why?
Bearing false witness, is when you accuse someone falsely. Much like you are doing to God.
Deuteronomy 5:9, specifically tells us that the sinner is turning from God. He has decided to not trust or obey God. This same can be said about those in the family of that person. But notice that this “visiting of iniquities”, is not a curse, it is telling us that the results of their sins will become fulfilled.
And the “results” of their sin, is death. Romans 6:23. And this is not an immediate thing, where God strikes them down. Because God has always permitted an opportunity for repentance. He calls them to confess their sins.
You forget, if you take into consideration the whole Bible, that the Israelites were under constant attack. And God was the Protector. Should His children, turn from Him, they turn from His protection. And when they turn from Him they turn into the hands of the enemy.
So they are actually bringing the results of their sins upon themselves. This is even though God has given them opportunity to confess and repentant.
I would like to know if you had trouble with authority. Do you feel that wrong should not be dealt with? Should the person doing wrong, not be encouraged to change what he does?
So God is not cursing. He is informing that sin leads to suffering and ultimately death.