“Did they Die for a Lie?” And Other Appeals to Character

Question from Jamie:
I have a question about two types of evidence that Christians use to prove the Bible. What do you (and maybe most atheists?) think of Saul of Tarsus’ conversion and the historical record of at least 3 of the apostles being martyred for their beliefs as being any kind of proof that Christianity is true? They say that it is very unlikely that people would have died for a lie and Paul had no reason to suddenly convert. I’m not asking as a Christian but as kind of a skeptic.

Answer by SmartLX:
Doesn’t matter who you ask as, I’ll answer it the same way.

Christian-persecutor Saul had no reason to suddenly convert to super-Christian Paul that we know of, but that’s not the same as having no reason to do it. There are plenty of reasons you can imagine; guilt is an obvious one, but it could simply have been a very persuasive proselytising Christian. If Saul had any earthly reason to switch but didn’t want to admit to it, the story of Jesus appearing to him on the road to Damascus was a great alternative that his new fellow worshipers would happily accept.

Perhaps something really did happen to him which he mistook for a divine experience. He’d never seen Jesus in life, so any man might have sufficed. The temporary blindness he reported could even be a sign of a stroke, so there are plausible ways in which his judgement could have been impaired.

The point is that supporting one’s claim by saying or implying there are no alternatives is a very weak argument unless one can actually establish that there are no possible alternatives. Otherwise you’re claiming that if you don’t know of a possibility, there is no such possibility. This is an argument from ignorance, the logical fallacy I most often see in arguments for the existence of God.

The argument about the apostles’ sacrifice is similar: that they had no reason to “die for a lie”. As you can see from the linked YouTube search, this is a major talking point for Josh McDowell, Lee Strobel and other prominent apologists. Again, the short response is that there are plenty of potential reasons. Maybe they believed the lie, or they thought the lie was worthwhile to advance the teachings of Jesus. Maybe the lie was a good short-term measure to keep them from being lynched by their own followers; not counting Judas an apostle was first killed eleven years after Jesus died, which isn’t bad considering. Maybe reports of their martyrdom are greatly exaggerated.

There are Christians who won’t tolerate a bad word about these arguments appealing to the integrity of the earliest disciples. Whenever I address one here, a long thread of comments follows where each of the hypothetical alternatives I’ve presented is attacked in great detail. It’s pointless because the alternatives aren’t limited to what I personally can imagine, but it shows that this topic genuinely and reliably strikes a nerve. That makes me think that behind the chaff of myriad apologetics Christians are taught and simply repeat, this is one idea that they actually use to reassure themselves that they’re right.

15 thoughts on ““Did they Die for a Lie?” And Other Appeals to Character”

  1. The possibility I think is most likely is that they are all stories to teach morals. Most of the events didn’t even happen but they make for a good story to pass down morality from generation to generation. Moses didn’t really led the Israelites out of Egypt, Noah didn’t really build an ARK for an imagined 40 day and 40 night flood and most of the rest of the stories are just that.

    1. The problem with that idea for Christians is that certain stories have to be taken at face value, primarily the resurrection of Jesus, to support the core belief in God. If you accept that some of the other stories are fables for teaching purposes, how do you distinguish between the two categories? How do you claim that any of it is definitely real?

      People like Ken Ham of Answers in Genesis make this same point when arguing that all the stories should be taken literally. Keeps belief simple and strong, as long as you don’t ask questions.

    2. smantlx: Really! To try and sumise on something before your time, without being able to investigate, . You should just say I wasn’t there so I can’t comment. Or at least allow the rest of the story come out. He, Saul, soon after to be called Paul, not only lost his eyesight, but heard and talked to a being who identified Himself as “Jesus, whom thou persecutith.” the same of transformation is mentioned earlier when the cowering Disciples all of a sudden gain confidence and turn the world upside down. so much so that the Jewish leaders never mentioned this in their history, so much that they hated Christianity. But the same is happening around the world today. Lives are being transformed by Christ. And not only of those who lead calm everyday lives. Sure there are those, but there are some who have seen Christ in their dreams and risk their lives changing their faith from one to that of Christianity. Now these you can go and interview, if you don’t mind risking your life for your god, Atheism. But down through the ages, men, women, boys and girls from all types of venues have testified that they have had an encounter with the same being that Paul attested to. Christ has said to have changed more drug addicts than any man made program. Christ is said to have been the reason why more drunks are off of skid row than any other person. More acts of kindness is said to have been done because of Jesus than any other reason. you just have not offered Him the opportunty to let Him let you know He is there.
      I can introduce you to Him if you care to call me. (817) 948-0270
      I dare you

      1. The blindness was the only outward sign of Saul’s experience, assuming he didn’t fake it; everything else was his word only, so lies or hallucinations are possibilities. And if the Disciples were in despair until they came up with the story of the invisible (except to them) resurrection of Christ, of course they’d have come back to their followers with renewed enthusiasm simply in order to sell the authenticity of their claims.

        Yes, lots of people have transformative experiences of Christ in the present day and take action because of them, in the interest of serving God’s will. The same is true of Buddha, Ganesha or any number of voodoo spirits giving medical advice. All that can be learned from the experiences or the subsequent actions is that belief is a powerful and potentially dangerous thing.

        Finally, so many people have gotten off drugs while praying to Jesus because faith-based programs like Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous are so widespread, and in many places ordered by courts. Once you’re in the program, whether it’s Jesus that gets you well or not He’ll get the credit.

        I won’t call you, Gerald, but I’ll leave your number up in case anyone else wants to take you up on the dare.

  2. When confronted with the “Why would they die for a lie” argument, I try to point put how often that humans have died for lies. How many young Germans died believing they were part of the “master race” in WW II. The Japanese soldier fought for their Emperor, a living god, with the belief that they could not lose. The Apache and the Ghost Dance making them invincible to white men’s bullets. That just scratches the surface…

    The reason these people died is because they believed that they were part of something special. They thought their sacrifice or their belief or their leader would lead to greater glory and ultimate reward for themselves. If this sounds remarkedly similar to the tale of the Christians facing the lions, don’t be surprised.

    1. This argument is brought up often in response, and I think it goes to show how easy it is to misunderstand the point. Of course, many people have “died for a lie.” That does nothing to invalidate the original argument. The question should then be “WHY did they die for a lie?” Obviously, it is because they wholeheartedly believed it was true. Someone would hardly die for something they KNEW was lie. Note the difference. The fact that a belief is a lie has no bearing on the decision, rather, whether they THINK their belief is true or not affects the decision.

      The disciples, contrary to the Germans, Japanese, etc., were in the unique position of witnessing first-hand, Jesus’s miracles, His death, and His resurrection. If Jesus was a phony, they would know–and they wouldn’t have died for it. Young German soldiers in WWII simply believed the lies they were told, which is very different from the disciples.

      1. Jordan:

        We don’t know that the disciples had “first-hand” knowledge of anything. What we have is one person (Paul/Saul) who claims to have talked to some of the disciples and wrote down what they told him. No disciple actually wrote anything down. The books Matthew and John were written by others. Matthew was written between 80 and 90 AD in polished Greek, and John 90-110 AD. None of the existing Gospels exist in original form. We have copies of copies, the earliest being the various Codex in existence today.

        Paul/Saul is the only real link to the supposed disciples. We basically have his word for all of Christianity. In a court of law his testimony would be labeled here-say. We don’t know if he actually talked to anyone, and if he did talk to anyone that he actually wrote down what was actually said, and even if he did write down what they said we don’t know who they actually were or if they are lying or not. There’s one heck of a chain of command problem for the information that Paul gives us. The Bible cannot be used to prove the Bible. Since there is exactly zero data or empirical evidence to support Paul/Saul’s claims, and also zero data or empirical evidence for the existence of any supernatural claim mankind has ever made in the entire history of humanity, why should we consider Paul/Saul to be a trustworthy source of supernatural claims while ignoring others like Plutarch’s claims about Apollo?

        Sorry, but biblical claims don’t have any first-hand accounts, and no independent confirmation or evidence to back it up…

        1. Your knowledge of Biblical history, and for that matter of history, is lacking true substance. Actually, it is believed that Luke, who was a doctor, wrote some of what Paul had exposure to.
          Then, there were other books of the New Testament that were written by their authors. But, and this is a big but, the New testament, is supported or has its foundation built upon the Old Testament. The Old Testament’s theme was the primary theme of the New Testament. That was God’s salvation of Man through Christ. So, everything, in the Old Testament pointed to Christ, as our Savior. And bygemini (help me out guys with this expression) God pulled it off in the New Testament.

      2. Jordan, your basic argument is a good one; we should distinguish between people acting on mere belief and those acting on actual experience. However, in the case of the apostles your claim can only be accepted as true if and only if each of the following is true:

        (i) we can be reasonably certain of what they believed, i.e., we had first-hand evidence from those individuals;
        (ii) we can be reasonably certain of the actions that led to their deaths;
        (iii) we can be reasonably certain of the manner of their deaths
        (iv) we can be reasonably certain of the time of their deaths

        We can do none of these for any of the apostles. The huge irony is we don’t even have to look outside the Christian tradition itself to identify the obvious ambiguous, contradictory and fabricated stories that are available. Some examples:

        Peter (allegedly martyred c.64 CE): As first reported in the Acts of Peter (c. 150-200 CE) he was crucified upside down in Rome. The Acts also tell us he caused a dog to speak intelligibly, raised a smoked fish from the dead and did battle with a flying magician. Not surprisingly, Eusebius (accepted as historically accurate by many Christian apologists, including Strobel and McDowell) dismissed the Acts of Peter as spurious and heretical (Chapter XXV, Church History). I Clement 5 (c. 80-140CE), written in Rome, also mentions Peter’s death and calls him a martyr but gives no information as to the events merely stating: “having borne his testimony went to his appointed place of glory.” Clement does not mention James the Just, James, son of Zebedee, Philip, Simon or Jude as martyrs at all, even though they were all supposedly martyred by the time he wrote.

        Philip (54 CE): The earliest report of his martyrdom is in the Acts of Philip (350–400CE). He was hung upside down with iron hooks through his ankles. As he was dying, Philip prays and a hole appears which swallows up the house of the man who had him executed, a temple and 7,000 men. This causes Jesus to appear (an actual claimed 2nd Coming) and rebuke Philip for “returning evil for evil”. No other report of this event exists. The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia calls the work “purely legendary and a tissue of fables”.

        Matthias (70 CE): Eusebius simply mentions that he preached in Ethiopia, nothing else. The earliest written report of his death comes from the 14th-century historian Nicephorus who claims he died by crucifixion in Georgia. The 17th-century historian Louis-Sébastien Le Nain de Tillemont says he was stoned and then beheaded in Jerusalem. The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia says, “information concerning the life and death of Matthias is vague and contradictory.”

        Thomas (70 CE): Earliest report is the Acts of Thomas (c. 200–225CE; which also claim him to be Jesus’ twin brother). They state that he went to India, where King Misdaeus has him speared to death. After dying he appears to the King in a vision and tells the King to use the dust from his tomb to cure his son of demon possession. Eusebius dismissed the Acts of Thomas as unreliable and heretical and says he went as a missionary to Parthia. The New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia suggests that the Acts of Thomas were part of an early Gnostic/Pagan salvation cult that followed twin gods called the Dioscuri. The late 4th century pilgrim Aetheria records in her epistles that Thomas was buried in the Syrian city of Edessa after dying of old age.

        Andrew (c.70 AD; Peter’s Brother): Earliest report from the Acts of Andrew (c. 150-200CE) say he was crucified in Patrae (Hippolytus tells us Andrew was hanged from an olive tree). The Acts also tell us he raised a boy from the dead, cured a blind man and summoned an earthquake that killed many people in order to kill a woman who was trying to have sex with her own son. Afterward he heals all the survivors magically. The earthquake story is, of course, not mentioned by anyone else. Eusebius dismissed the Acts of Andrew as unreliable.

        Matthew (60-70 CE): The Catholic Encyclopedia writes, “There is a disagreement as to the place of St. Matthew’s martyrdom and the kind of torture inflicted on him, therefore it is not known whether he was burned, stoned, or beheaded.” The Christian History Institute says, “We have nothing but legend about Matthew’s death.” Various stories have him living in Ethiopia, Persia, Parthia, Isidore, and Macedonia. Heracleon and Clement both say that Matthew died a natural death.

        Bartholomew (Nathaniel; 70 CE): Four separate stories have him drowned, beheaded, flayed alive and crucified. Eusebius tells us that Pantaeus had heard from other converts that Bartholomew preached in India where he was beheaded on the orders of King Astreges. Hippolytus has him crucified in Armenia. The Church of Bartholomew on Tiber Island in Rome claims to hold his remains.

        Simon the Zealot (74 CE) and Jude the Apostle (72 CE): The original Acts of Simon and Jude (attributed to Abdias, the Bishop of Babylon), are lost and the earliest extracts found in the 13th century novel ‘The Golden Legend’. They are claimed to have been axed to death in Beirut. Immediately after their death lightning came down from the sky and turned two men into coal. But the novel also states that some people say they were both sawn in half, crucified and even not having been martyred at all, but died of old age. The novel also tells us that Emperor Nero gave birth to a frog (sic). According to New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia Simon has variously claimed to have died in Samaria, Iberia, Georgia, and even Britain. The Catholic Patron Saints Index says Jude was clubbed to death; however, the Acts of Thaddeus says Jude died naturally.

        This is all mythology. Sometimes it’s very good mythology, granted. But you can’t base an entire belief system on stuff like this without all sorts of cognitive contortions. Apologists simply choose the story that they most want to hear, wrap it in some pseudo-intellectual bafflegab and peddle it as if it were known fact. It’s not scholarly, it’s dishonesty. The ancient historian Matthew Ferguson tells it straight:

        “…..the whole argument becomes circular: apologists recognize that the miraculous resurrection of Jesus is unbelievable, so they appeal to the supposed “facts” of the apostles’ deaths in an attempt to prove it, but these accounts are full of miracles and resurrections as well. It is appealing to magic in order to prove magic.”

        1. He didn’t take into account that this world was made from nothing. And if God could make everything from nothing, how hard is it to make Himself man and walk with us?

        2. Remember Satan knows that he has been defeated. And so he continues his lies and innuendos, to make what is real, seem false. It would be just like many lawyers, when force to give up their evidence, they give up a mountain of trash, so as to hide what they don’t want to be found. So satan, gets the church leaders to fall into sin, to teach lies, to lose sight of its true objective, so as to hide and distort the truth, and thus keep us from eternal life.

      3. Well stated. Especially, if you take into account that as the Bible said that they had lost all hope that He was the Messiah. They, saw the miracles Jesus performed. Miracles that were not denied to by the Scribes and Pharisees, of His day. They only said that He performed them through the help of the Devil. They had been exposed to His kindness He showed to all, not only when they were following Him, but they probably heard of Him while He was a youth, which would make a good reason for them to follow Him when He called them. The Bible talks about Him as a youth, when they asked how He came to have such astounding knowledge even though He didn’t sit with any of the then known teachers of His day. Many of the Historians speak of not only Christ but to His followers which, if not proves Him as God, can be included into the overwhelming mountain or preponderance of evidence that should cause any interested as to whether there is a God or not to sit up and take notice that maybe there is.

  3. Further to Apache Ghost Dance and bullets: During the Maji-Maji rebellion in German East Africa in 1905, a native spiritual leader named Kinjikitile Ngwale managed to convince thousands of warriors from several tribes that he had cast a spell that would that turn German machine gun bullets into water. Thousands were, of course, slaughtered.

    Christians and Muslims often point to how often disparate cultures have come to the same theistic beliefs as evidence that they are accessing the underlying truths of theism. Similarly for myths, like the flood myth. So isn’t it amazing that two completely different cultures, on two widely separated continents, having no contact with each other, could each come to the same spiritual realisation re bullets? And then be prepared to die by the boatload for their shared belief?

    Obviously, there must be some universal truth in their beliefs. After all, no-one would die for a lie as big as that one…….

  4. I’m sorry that you have completely missed the point I tried to communicate. People are being healed. They are being set free from vices. They are having their lives changed. And all are claiming it being done through having met our Savior. Being are giving their lives because they have met our Savior. Things are happening that medical science has no explanation. All of these people are giving testimony that they have met Jesus, in such a miraculous way that it is changing their lives. And all you see is that they are having some sort of mental brain fart. What you are claiming is not real science. Because you have read the encounters from the Bible. Though you have read that so many after Biblical times are giving the same testimonies. Though you are seeing that thousands are making the same claim, you are citing some sort of mass hysteria. If indeed this it is some sort of hysteria, it is encompassing not only present times but surpassing all time. But for the novice so called men of science all you care to accept is that which your puny minds can scarcely begin to grasp. Just the here and now and that which you can handle, except for that which never has had any proof such as evolution and the big bang.

  5. It is kind of you for retaining my number. But I would prefer that you also would also allow our Lord Jesus to let you see that He is more than anything you have given Him a chance to be. It is not only for the number of people who have given testimony that they have had an encounter with Him. We all all to well what people do when caught up in religious fervor. Even when something happens that causes your body to produce excess adrenaline people have been known to have done some extraordinary feasts. But, what Jesus has done, in all time periods, has been documented across the ages. And when you add to this that this does not produce walking timebombs, but sincere individuals who would rather die than renounce, even giving their lives for individuals they know not. Adding to this that somehow the run of the mill fishermen, tax collectors and the like whose hopes and dreams were dashed by the cream of the crop clergy, of the Jewish nation, and who were all but finished after seeing their would be Messiah hanging of the very source of death that they had seen many other would be Messiahs, two of whom the Bible mentions when the Disciples had been dragged before the Sanhedrin council, who had been warned by the teacher of Saul himself, reminding them that these two upstarts had a following who saw these two, come and go, bringing to nought the hopes of dreams of their previous followers. Even after witnessing these previous failures, and finding themselves in fear that they would be next in the witch hunt they fear would follow the death of their Messiah, they somehow, turned the world upside down. Now one could ask, if they would stop to look beyond the refusal to believe that their could be a Creator who loves and wishes to give us back the dreams that our forefathers walked away from, that why would these lowly individuals, all of a sudden find the impetus to do so. And if you would only combine this unlikely turn of events, with the fact that it is not within the scope of possibility, to not only have something come from nothing, but in reality, that possibility should immediately be rejected by any true observer who calls himself a scientist, since they have never observed something coming from nothing. So, the explanations, that this is how this universe came into being should have stymied right there due to this one observation that something has never come from nothing. At least it should have been where these thinkers should still be today, awaiting the evidence that they needed to be able to go on to the next question of how? Yet, these Atheists have leaped frog, down the evolutionary pathway, pushing down, sidestepping, going under, over , around common sense questions that should have made them stop and reflect, and come to the conclusion that many Creationists have come to, that God did it all. But instead they have made Atheism their own religion, with many former Atheists, having jumped ship, after realizing, this very question has not been dealt with and that the cart has been put before the horse, and that garbage in being built on a crumbling foundation, leads to garbage out.
    Next, and I’m not sure why, but despite the fact that Atheists, who call themselves Scientists, do not find it hard to allow themselves the leeway that there was either nothing, or some kind of matter in the beginning, that led to life of some kind, they refuse the possibility that could have been a God like being with the ability to produce life, and if so, He is the one who started the ball rolling for the reality we know. They also refuse to accept the fact that if there had been nothing all along, why did that nothing suddenly, explode into something, anything, let alone us. Why would nothing, having been nothing for ever and a day, not mentioning that there would not even have been time or space, because there would have nothing, what would have been the catalyst to change the status quo. And with that question, that should have been a stop sign to a true Scientist, that should have prevented them from venturing down that road, at least until that question was sufficiently dealt with, then the next logical step was to ask, or muse to themselves, realizing that it is usually, an intelligence that upsets the status quo. Because we want to know why. So we add this, and do that. Causing a difference. This is why it says in Psalm 19, ” The heavens declare the glory of God”
    And then after these had been answered, then, the next unanswerable question, would be, how could life have come from inanimate objects. Since science is from observable instances, the true Scientist should have been able to recognize the one true observable fact, and that life always, only comes from something that is already, LIVING. Once again, God. All roads points to an Intelligence. Who knows where our science would have taken us if we had accepted the fact that God did it all. We could have been meeting that intelligence by now, except for the fact that we went rambling down an obviously, dead end street. But, that is actually God’s own intention. To reunite with us once again, where He has the desires to fulfill our wildest dreams and imaginations, and then to blow our minds with even more than we could possibly imagine. For He says in Isaiah 46 “9 Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is none other; I am God, and there is none like Me,”10 declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will do ALL MY PLEASURE” Dear friend, it is His pleasure to be with us. He can’t wait for this to happen. Sure I know, but why, is it happening like it is. Well it is because we, our foreparents, deviated from His grand design. So, He initiated plan two. His death, to reunited us with Him. Yes, I know, but why still? There are questions that make only sense when you look at the answers using the filters of the Bible. Seeing how the battle between Good and Evil, has had to be fought, not only down here where we walk, but inside our minds. Where each battle is won or lost, in accordance to each of our own desires, and wills. And since this is a cosmic battle, with cosmic accusations, comic, rules and regulations needed to be followed, because satan, the creation, and accuser, has not the wherewithal, to best God, the Creator. So, since God is Just, He has willingly tied His hands so to speak, and has limited His actions to that of what satan, can himself manage. This, with the whole Cosmos observing, to see if the accusations made against God have any legitimacy. Or have they been made by an irate, selfish, being, who, for some reason, thought more of himself than he ought to have thought. Isaiah 14:14King James Version (KJV)
    “14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
    And then the cosmic battle as recorded here in Revelation 12:7-12New King James Version (NKJV)
    7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon(satan); and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them[a] in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
    So you see friend, God is looking at the great picture. But He not only has to deal with the here and now, but since He transcends all we know, of time and space, He has planned for that. He not only has to take into account us on this earth, our fears, and likes and dislikes, our failings, He has to take into account the other intelligents beings of His creations. Each one meaning just as much to Him as though as they were the only ones there. God, has had to show each one that the accusations are false, so He has placed Himself on trial, so that His Creation can judge the Creator. Even though He has the power to make it go away, even better than any other corrupt government, on this earth, He has stepped down and came to this earth to prove or disprove the accusations he was successful to make Eve and Adam believe when he disguised himself and infiltrated the Edenic home that God had created for Man. Causing man to doubt the sincerity of their Creator, which led to their disobedience, and the ejection of man from Eden. Now you see, or know what you may not have known. There is a war, going on, where it matters the most. In our minds. The battle of our wills. Where does your allegiance lie? In Deuteronomy 30: 15-19 God tells us “15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess. 17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess. 19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.” And He is talking to us today friend. The decisions you make today affect your life tomorrow. There is God. And He loves us, more than we can know. And He will be happy to soak us in His love throughout eternity. But we must receive His love today. Before our deaths or before He returns the second time to make the earth anew. Look at he holes that are as big as black holes in the theories of the Atheists, and the Evolutionists. They must have more faith in their theories than we to have in God. They say that it all started out from nothing. But have no proof, today, nothing continues to produce nothing. They come up with theories that somehow gravity, was the culprit, this coming from one of the leading, but sadly to say gullible, patsy of satan himself, Atheists, who is running out of illogical nonsensical irrationalities, and is now pioneering the way to even worse. And even with some Christians, there has been a falling away, from believers who trying to straddle the fence try to ignore what God has said in His word that He did it all, but they refuse to recognize that satan is influencing the science of this world, where many of the Scientists, twists their facts and hold back information, proving that all that Atheists claim is built on lies and inuendo, smoke an mirrors so to cause us to be lost, because we fail to study, not only God’s Word, the Holy Bible, but we refuse to accept what the heavens and nature itself declares about God our Creator.
    Evolutionists, claim we are a product of other organisms, who have somehow been able to adjust their DNA’s coding, something that we have recently been able to do on a limited degree, but these organisms have had some kind of sensors that provide these organisms with timely updates, to their inferior, yet somehow superior computers that causes these organisms the ability to know what is going to happen to their own environments, so that they can somehow change each of their own chemical codings and produce a superior organism to live to fight a better day. But, where is the proof of such organisms? Where are the missing links in the fossil records that these organisms have been transformed, If indeed they could have survived over the millions of supposed years that they claim would have been needed to effect the necessary changes for their survivals. The fossils records by the confession of one of the initiators of the theory of evolution, Charles Darwin, to his own chagrin, show no kind of such evolution, but instead show an all of a sudden population of plants, animals, birds, fish, right down to the smallest organisms, all at once as though someone had unloaded them at one time just as they are and just they have always been since that time. They have not been able to explain, not only why they cannot find these necessary fossil records that would literally place the last nail in the theory that God created us, but they cannot now explain how each plant and animal, bacteria and virus still, show no signs of evolving to some kind of other organism today. They claim as the have always claimed, if we have enough time we will prove what we are saying, we will find the proof, it is there somewhere. But in the meantime they, because they are in charge of what is taught by our great institutions of higher learnings, continue to teach that there is no other possible explanation of how everything came to be. They teach it as fact and they ostracize and limit others of their fields when they protest and point to the true meaning of what has been discovered. How that the evidence points to an Intelligent designer, and not to some random chance of nothingness. Please don’t just take the word of anyone. Not even with some kind of letters behind their names. For example look at this website (http://thetruthwins.com/archives/44-reasons-why-evolution-is-just-a-fairy-tale-for-adults ). Oh, you say ” another conspiracy theory” yes, another one, but one that has the the foe of the human race, pulling all the strings.
    Take a look at Ben Stein’s ” Expelled, No Intelligence Allowed” video. Some of our schools of higher learnings are behind this deception, and those who want to allow the evidence to shine, get pushed into silence or get ostracized and punished for disagreeing with the way the skewed interpretation of the evidence.
    But, as God said earlier, in this, comment. God will not be denied.

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