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Hauntings

“If someone’s really interacted with a ghost and can prove it, wouldn’t we all want to be the first to know? Until then, I take each claim as it comes.”

Question from Robert:
What is an Atheists position on the paranormal, and what do you say to people who have experienced paranormal activity?

Answer by SmartLX:
Save the capital A, please. It’s not named after anyone, it’s not a complete philosophical “school” and it doesn’t trigger the special case for deities. You wouldn’t capitalise a theist, so you shouldn’t capitalise an atheist either.

There is no one atheist position on the paranormal – by which, from your title “Hauntings”, I assume you principally mean ghosts. We’ve had self-proclaimed atheists here arguing with other self-proclaimed atheists over whether ghosts exist. It’s not necessarily a contradiction for an atheist to believe in ghosts if he/she sees a way people can persist after their own deaths without the help of a god. Personally, while I know people leave behind great legacies when they die, I don’t think they continue to exist as literal ghosts. And I don’t think there’s any available, substantive evidence for any other “paranormal” phenomena, which for me puts them all in the same category as gods.

Thus, there’s nobody I’ve ever spoken to who I can be confident has actually experienced paranormal activity. When people say that they’ve experienced paranormal activity, which sometimes they do, I ask for their evidence and I discuss alternative explanations with them. If someone’s really interacted with a ghost and can prove it, wouldn’t we all want to be the first to know? Until then, I take each claim as it comes.

Rapture in 2011!…?

“The thing about apocalyptic cults is that they portray the apocalypse in such a way that everything works out all right if they’ve got all the chips at crunch time.”

Question from M:
G’day!

After hearing your most recent podcast, I was inspired to inquire further about the Rapture that has been announced for May 21, 2011. I contacted the EBible Fellowship about their decree and asked the following:

“I was just wondering, if you are indeed certain that the world is coming to an end soon, would you have a problem with signing a contract that all your belongings be turned over someone else on that day. Surely, you won’t need any money or a home or furniture, or anything else for that matter, once you are raptured up to heaven. A few good beneficiaries that I would like to suggest for your possesions to be given to are: The Center for Inquiry, The James Randi Education Foundation, The Public Braodcasting Station or The Committee for Skeptical Inquiry.

God’s Law is absolute, and as such it would be an admission of lack of faith to have any doubts about this apocolyptic proclamation. Please do not insult God’s intellegence by hedging your bet. To keep ones earthly belongings in the off-chance that God may be wrong is the height of arrogance. The only possitive course of action would be to accept the end as a fact, and leave all possible resourses to those who chose to ignore God’s word in hope that they will then be better able to find the truth that is God in the time they will have left after the rapture and before the entire world ends. To deny the deniers an opportunity to repent and see the light would be, at best, unchristian.

Thank you for your concern on this highly important matter.”

I have been told for meny decades that God is the source of morality and that Christians are thus moral, so I don’t see any reason why they should object to my proposal. The only thing left to do now is sit back and wait for those bank accounts, property titles and other such stuff to get signed over. They wouldn’t be lying about the whole Rapture thing, surely.

Right?

Answer by SmartLX:
The thing about apocalyptic cults is that they portray the apocalypse in such a way that everything works out all right if they’ve got all the chips at crunch time.

Particularly in Christian eschatology (endtime mythology), the end of the world isn’t a quick process; there’s the Tribulation to get through, where the world goes almost literally to Hell before Jesus shows up (again). That’s what the Left Behind books are all about, and there are over a dozen of those so there’s a fair bit of chronological space to squeeze them all in. While it’s happening, the righteous will do what they can to help those who need or deserve it, but for that they need money.

Point is, there’s always a reason why they aren’t giving away their own resources other than that the world isn’t really ending. Whether the reason they give is a real reason or not, just keep in mind that doomsday cultists, whatever they may be, are not necessarily stupid. They have probably thought of the obvious questions people are going to ask them, especially questions which challenge their right to their own stuff.

Christmas on Duty

“If it came to a lawsuit, the nativity would most likely be defended as a seasonal tradition stretching back decades.”

Question from Armybrat:
I work on a military post and driving into work today there was a big nativity scene at the first intersection after entering the post. Is this not going against the law of mixing government and religion? Me personally I dont think that it should be there but Im not a law major so what do you think? Oh and its not in or around a church.

Answer by SmartLX:
First off, I’m assuming you’re in the USA. And I hope you’re not assuming I’m a law major either.

If the nativity is inside the post, and it’s sanctioned by the management, then it’s an endorsement of a specific religion on government property and the same laws apply to it as to all those lists of the Ten Commandments in courthouses which cause lawsuits all the time.

If it came to a lawsuit, the nativity would most likely be defended as a seasonal tradition stretching back decades. This would be a paper-thin defence as there are plenty of traditional Christmas decorations that don’t shove Jesus right in your face, like trees (minus the angels), tinsel and Santa. Nevertheless, that might well be enough to save it if the arbitrator is sympathetic.

If you want more details on legal issues like this one in the US military, there’s an organisation that would love to help: the Military Religious Freedom Foundation. They’re secularists, not explicitly atheists (their founder is Jewish), but the big problem right now is unchecked Christian proselytisation to captive audiences of soldiers and frightened civilians, and people of all stripes including Christians can fight that together.

The God Delusion and The Shack

“If you really don’t want to pay for it, but don’t want to steal it either, try your local public library.”

Question from Brian:
I keep arguing with this christian in one of my classes, and as part of an agreement, I’m going to be reading a book called “the shack.” However, I only agreed to this if he would read a piece of atheist literature. Specifically, the God Delusion. However, I don’t own a copy. Is there somewhere I could download it from without signing up for something?

Answer by SmartLX:
The New York Times has (most of) the first chapter, but I’m not sure where you could legally download the whole thing for free even if you did sign up for something. You could of course illegally download it by torrent or whatever, if you can justify doing so to yourself.

TGD is four years old now, and the paperback’s been through several editions, so you should be able to get it quite cheaply if you find the right bookshop. (I saw this for myself when I bought a second copy while my first was circulating among my friends.) If you really don’t want to pay for it, but don’t want to steal it either, try your local public library.

FYI: The Shack is a work of fiction wherein God personally lays out his own theodicy, i.e. explains in general why bad things happen, to a victim of tragedy. As an apologetic tool it’s most useful when a potential convert to Christianity is specifically struggling with the Problem of Evil. I don’t know whether that applies to you. In any case, even among Christians the book has its advocates and its opponents. Just in the link to Amazon above, you can see people separately trying to defend the book (Finding God in The Shack) and attack it (Burning Down The Shack).

I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on it, and your friend’s thoughts on TGD, if you want to comment when you’re done.

If only there were…oh, wait, there is!

Ladies, genetlemen and Brian, I give you the Skeptics’ Annotated Bible, with the SA Quran and SA Book of Mormon thrown in.

Question from Brian:
Is there some kind of online resource for atheists? I was thinking of something like an online bible with highlighted contradictions or something. I couldn’t find anything though.

Answer by SmartLX:
Ladies, genetlemen and Brian, I give you the Skeptics’ Annotated Bible, with the SA Quran and SA Book of Mormon thrown in. Issues are listed by chapter and verse, as well as category (e.g. Contradictions, Absurdity and Intolerance). It’s the single most comprehensive online Bible study guide that doesn’t immediately try to plug every hole with rationalisations in the name of “Biblical exegesis”.

The SAB has been around long enough that several Biblical inerrantist groups and individuals have started counter-projects to answer every single issue it raises, as a matter of principle. The creator of the SAB isn’t concerned by this; he lists the responses on the site, and includes links with each highlighted issue to any specific responses from those counter-projects which are freely available (some are now commercial products). These responses are just as informative to read as the site itself, because they show just how hard you have to work to reconcile certain passages with the doctrine of inerrancy, or divine co-authorship, or even common sense.

So go check it out. I’m right here if anybody wants to discuss something specific pointed out by the SAB.

Debating with Christians

“Why don’t we just start believing there’s a little green leprechaun on my lap waiting to grant my every wish while we’re at it?”

Question from Brian:
It’s me again. This Christian at my school is planning on debating me about religion this Monday. My problem isn’t really with the information, it’s just that people always think that I think I’m better than they are. What do you think?

Answer by Andrea:
Dear Brian,

First – Kudos to you for debating Christians! We need to have more of that in this country.

Regarding your question, during my college days, I would have said, of course I’m better and more rational than you, how can any sane person believe there’s an invisible wizard in the sky? Why don’t we just start believing there’s a little green leprechaun on my lap waiting to grant my every wish while we’re at it?

These days I’m more tactful, and in studying sociology and neurophysiology, I realize that people can genuinely believe they have had a supernatural experience, and not knowing brain neurophysiology, they attribute it to a supernatural force. Others don’t have the strength to handle life’s issues without a crutch, which can also result from improper upbringing in the formative years.

In answer to your question, however, I would touch on the following:

· Make it clear that everyone has a mixture of strengths and weaknesses including yourself, and no one is necessarily better than anyone else.

· Make people aware that you think they are entitled to believe whatever they want to as long as they don’t try to shove it down everyone’s throat.

· To bring people around to my way of thinking, or at least understanding it so they don’t fear it so much, I would mention some of the reasons why I don’t believe, which for me would be:
– Other than biblically-related writing, there is no secular proof of a man who could heal lepers, raise the dead or walk on water. There is also no proof of any apostles or most, if not all, the stories in the Bible (eg the great flood, etc.). There is secular proof of a King Herod, but he died 2 years before Christ was said to be born. There is also no proof of any mass slaughtering of male children.
– There is much proof that Christianity is merely a plagiarism of many mythologies preceding it (
see for instance “The Christ Conspiracy: The Greatest Story Ever Sold and Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled at URL: www.truthbeknown.com/christ.htm)
– How can one believe religion is a good thing when secular societies are so much more societally healthy, while the US, the most religious country in the industrialized world, has the most societal dysfunction (i.e., highest rates of assaults, murder, imprisonment). The second most religious country, Portugal, is also second most dysfunctional. See also Phil Zuckerman and Gregory Paul for stats.
– Mention the contradictions found throughout the Bible. I think if more people actually read the Old Testament, more people would be atheists.


Try also Secular Student Alliance for answers to your question and for purposes of community.
Hope that helps.
Best,
Andrea

Gods vs Aliens

“…there is at least one natural explanation for any well-established phenomenon which believers attribute to their gods that doesn’t involve aliens.”

Question from Buzz:
If you are an atheist you must also believe that interstellar transport is impossible. To believe aliens can visit but then deny a god is completely illogical.

Answer by SmartLX:
I assume you think atheists use visiting aliens as an alternative explanation to a god for certain things. While some might, there is at least one natural explanation for any well-established phenomenon which believers attribute to their gods that doesn’t involve aliens. So whether people are atheists doesn’t have much to do with whether they think we’ve been visited.

As for those who believe aliens have been here without any evidence to back them up, they’re in the same boat as people who believe there’s a god without any evidence to back that up, except that the former group are in the minority.

A toughie: How do you convert a theist to an atheist?

“That’s not just a toughie, it’s the toughie. If there were a reliable method of genuinely dispelling people’s theism, there wouldn’t be many theists left.”

Question from Rohit:
I think atheism is just a consequence of being rational. Logic, good judgement and common sensical thinking will lead one to atheism in my opinion. And I think that theism is an infantile habit that one clings on to – out of a sense of nostalgia, insecurity/fear , doubt or even just plain superstition.
Obviously a lot of people do not like this about me – they call it being ‘opinionated’, ‘not listening to the other side’ etc.
As far as religion and spirituality are concerned I’m sort of a been there, done that, found nothing type. I’ve read the bible, the bhagvatgita, qoran, granth sahib etc etc – I admire pieces of them as works of art (or philosophy). But no more than that. There are verses in each of these that are poetic, sublime. But I cannot for the life of me believe them to be fact. My brain just does not allow it (the curse of being trained as an engineer perhaps).

Someone very very close to me is a theist. I believe she is a borderline theist (bordering on agnosticism) but she is extremely particular about rituals, about me not cussing whenever the god word is raised etc.
She won’t listen to reason, or logic or anything. She’s fine in all other senses, much more practical than me in worldly matters, infact.

How does one push a borderline agnostic into the light of atheism?
What worries me most, the reason I want her to ‘convert’, is that the amount of time one wastes in superstitions and the amount of damage bad beliefs can do is tremendous – I’ve seen it happen in my own life.

Since she just won’t talk to me on this matter, I’ve been thinking of buying some good books on atheism and leaving them around casually – but I don’t know if that will work. Its pretty childish and frustrating – she has a pretty ok IQ (125) … but she just clings on. Maybe I should enroll her into an engineering/ physical science course 🙂

Answer by SmartLX:
That’s not just a toughie, it’s the toughie. If there were a reliable method of genuinely dispelling people’s theism, there wouldn’t be many theists left.

The main problem from your point of view is that losing one’s religion is largely an internal process. You can inspire it or set it off, but you can’t do it all for your friend. She has to realise things for herself.

The question I try to ask believers is why they believe. This bit of information above all will help you with your friend, whether she tells you outright or you find out another way. Once you know what’s supporting her belief, you’ll know what you actually need to address in order to bring her around. Keep in mind that the reason she believes will almost certainly be a combination of intellectual and emotional factors, so you probably won’t come up with an instant pill.

Educating the religious can sometimes have the opposite effect of what you’re expecting and entrench their beliefs further. Many champions of the intelligent design movement are engineers or computer programmers, and they claim to know design when they see it. Generally speaking, if one’s beliefs survive one’s education, one’s education then serves one’s beliefs.

I do agree with your reason for wanting to deconvert your friend. Religion tends to benefit itself far more than its hosts.

Pre-Teen Discipline

“As a public school teacher for over 12 years, as well as a formerly rebellious teen, I can give you a bit of insight on two levels. It’s not a short and simple answer, but it will definitely help you make progress in reconnecting with your sweetie.”

Question from Deanna:
My 12 y/o in the past 12 months has snuck out at least 2X in the middle of the night. Smoked a cigarette in her room and most recently last week skipped school. I am an Agnositc Single Mother who quit smoking over 5 years ago. When I did these kind of things I was in high school and almost never got caught. So either she is not good at covering her tracks or she is doing more than I know. Regardless, what suggestions do you have besides the traditional grounding taking away the phone discipline for an agnostic child. I am trying to teach her to make good decisions and use critical thinking but it doesn’t seem to be working. I live in the South and most of my contacts including family are going to say take her to church. I agree she probably needs more positive influences in her life but church is not a real option for me because I really don’t think that type of teaching will help. Any books on raising kids atheist/agnostic that you know of? What I found in the past always referred back to religion.
Thanks for your help

Answer by Andrea:
Hi Deanna.

As a public school teacher for over 12 years, as well as a formerly rebellious teen, I can give you a bit of insight on two levels. It’s not a short and simple answer, but it will definitely help you make progress in reconnecting with your sweetie.

I was rebellious as a teen mainly because I was angry and also hurt. Why? I’m not sure, maybe it had to do with my parents’ divorce, in part. It was also fun to smoke and be rebellious back in jr. high school. But I think the turbulent feelings apply to a lot of teens simply because studies show there are vast fluctuations in hormonal levels which can impact behavior, so she may be acting out partly because she has so many feelings and she doesn’t know what to do with them all. Critical thinking is great a lot of the time, but it might not help so much at this stage of her life.

However, there are other ways to make good behavior a habit. (See below for some info in that vein.) But regarding the smoking and sneaking out, does your daughter sneak out just to smoke? If so, she’s probably already hooked, in which case you might want to let her smoke in the garage or something just so you can keep an eye on her and she doesn’t get into more trouble. If she’s not already addicted to cigarettes, or just in the beginning stages, it would be good to show her pictures of the lungs of a smoker, as well as a wrinkly face that can come with just 10 years of depriving your skin cells of oxygen. The most effective approach is probably to let her read first-hand accounts of teen role models that think smoking is gross and disgusting, of which there are many these days –fortunately. I remember trying to quit at age 16 and I cried so hard because I couldn’t do it (after proudly smoking my first pack a day at age 12).

Re religious indoctrination: My parents tried sending me to a Catholic school, which didn’t help because not only were the nuns mean, but the crowd was just as bad there. This would make sense, since studies show Catholics and then Protestants and Baptists make up a majority of inmates per capita in federal prison, whereas atheists make up the lowest numbers per capita. Therefore, I would suggest you check out Camp Quest, which is a children’s camp for freethinking families. There are more such camps, the best way to find them is to type in “secular” and “children” and then “camp” and/or “volunteer activities.” Also check out AtheistParents.org.

Other recommendations I have as a teacher practicing “loving discipline,” which helps to make good behavior a habit (which most behaviors are) include the following:
– Make your conversations with her respectful and courteous and listen with genuine attention without sounding critical or judgmental, Heart-to-heart talks may be more fruitful while you’re doing something else like washing the dishes or driving her somewhere in the car.
– Explain your requests. If you tell them why you want something, children accept your requests more readily because they will see you as being fair and reasonable, not arbitrary and capricious and “mean.”
– Ask questions about what kids think they should do instead of giving orders.
– Ask her what you can do to make the two of you closer, or try engaging in a “mother-daughter adventure” every week like hiking or involving one of her hobbies if she is amenable.
– Don’t overlook the importance of physical presence. You can still connect with your kid by being in close proximity while she is doing things such as putting together puzzles, reading books or doing homework.
– Add structure to your home life (as in a regular schedule).
– Studies show kids do better academicaly and socio-emotionally with regular family meals.
– Rather than disciplining through punishment, motivate her into good behavior with an inducement — something so she can work toward a day at a time. A fellow teacher of mine uses raffle tickets she buys at Longs. Her daughter earns a certain number of them for choosing appropriate behavior, and those raffle tickets go toward something she really wants.
– Don’t expect perfection and praise every small step she makes in her behavior.
– You might also go through a depression checklist to see if she suffers from depression.
– Everyone needs to have something to give their life meaning. Find out what her dreams are, and then work together to toward that goal. It may be a dream that you’re not too crazy about (I wanted to be a street musician), but dreams change, sometimes several times a year at that age. So get her into a habit that can add pleasure and meaning to her life. (I ended up spending 8 hours a day playing the flute, which took me away from the “bad crowd.” A couple years later, I showed up on my mom’s doorstep in a business suit with briefcase.)
– Try to use a humorous and playful manner wherever possible. Give her lots of smiles.

There are hundreds of secular organizations for nontheists as well as agnostics across the country, including the South. If you give me a state I can help you find them, or try the suggestions for search engine terms above.

It may seem like your daughter is distant and aloof right now, Deanna, but remember this is only a phase. My mom now is my very best friend and there’s a good chance your daughter will feel the same way about you, in time.

I would love to know how it all works out.

– Andrea

P.S. Some more secular and freethinking parenting advice can be found here.

P.P.S. Unrelated but interesting article: half a million dollars of grant money for secularists.

Atheism: The New Closet

“I don’t know where you are, but in most countries it’s as illegal to discriminate against atheists in practical ways (e.g. in job interviews) as against people of any religion. The worst you’ll get is a lot of attitude.”

Question from Kevin:
I am agnostic-atheist but barely anyone knows and I would like them to know but there is a price to doing such. Only a few of my family [all who dislike my choice] and my friends [which only a majority dislike my views]

So—

Why should I come out as an atheist openly? It would bring me happiness to express my beliefs and i already have done so with friends, some have not taken it well and have left me for such. Others accepted it and I even converted a Christian to my point of view which I also enjoyed. But I understand there are problems with expressing this openly to everyone in real life (on job applications, social networking sites, job/other discrimination? etc.) I know that some people would hate, dislike, avoid or try to convert me and that would be awkward.

Why should I tell everyone I am an atheist and why should I not? Also do you think I should or should not, what is your opinion?

Answer by SmartLX:
Well, the first thing you did there was give us a good reason to come out as an atheist (your own happiness) and a good reason not to come out (possible discrimination), so that’s a start.

Another reason to come out is that it will encourage other atheists around you to do the same. Some of the people you think may react negatively to your atheism might actually be closeted atheists themselves. Even if they don’t come out all the way, they might at least reveal themselves to you.

Discrimination pretty much covers the negatives all by itself. I wouldn’t worry about it too much, though; I don’t know where you are, but in most countries it’s as illegal to discriminate against atheists in practical ways (e.g. in job interviews) as against people of any religion. The worst you’ll get is a lot of attitude.

One thing though, just because you openly declare yourself an atheist doesn’t mean you have to try and deconvert everyone you know. Maybe you actually want to, but people with any kind of one-track mind don’t tend to do well socially. Just come out, and expect to be accepted, and most of the time you will be…unless you’re an Amish or something.

I’m interested in the Christian you deconverted. Care to write a comment and tell us what happened there?