Age of non belief, christian friends, and family religion.

Jasmine asks:
At what age did you decide that you believe there was no God? When people try to convert you, what feelings do you encounter? Do you have any Christian friends, or have you completely removed yourself from anyone with any label near to that? Were you born into a Christian family, or were you born into an Atheist family and are just believing what your folks told you? How do you argue that atheism makes more sense than Christianity?

Jakes answer:
These are questions that I often get from people who are trying to understand why I am no longer a christian. I hope that I can answer your questions satisfactorily. Let’s take them one by one.

At what age did you decide that you believe there was no God? I lost my faith around 23. Technically, I don’t believe there is no god. I lack belief that there is a god. Now I know this might sound like the same thing at first, but it really isn’t. Let me explain it like this, let’s say that I have no active belief in a god. I am at 0 beliefs in a god or gods. You come and tell me about your god. If I accept this belief then I am at +1 beliefs in a god. If I do not accept your belief then I have not gained anything and remain at 0 beliefs in a god. For me, this was a 23 year process. So now, I am at 0 beliefs in a god. Now on the other hand, I do believe that the evidence people give for their gods are false. Since the only valid evidence for claims of existence must be objective and verifiable, and since no believer has ever produced such evidence, I believe that their evidence is invalid. Do you see the difference?
When people try to convert you, what feelings do you encounter? That depends on what I’m being told. My feelings can range anywhere from pity, to humor, to indignation. I pity those who believe without understanding what it is that they believe. I find it humorous when people present evidence that they wouldn’t accept themselves if the word “God” wasn’t attached to it. I feel indignation when a believer tells me that I am evil for not believing.
Do you have any Christian friends, or have you completely removed yourself from anyone with any label near to that? I have a few christian friends. I had more but people find it difficult to remain believers around me. I’ve deconverted most of my family and friends. I didn’t have to preach to them or anything like that, I just answer their questions much like I’m doing now with you. Eventually, they see the truth for themselves.
Were you born into a Christian family, or were you born into an Atheist family and are just believing what your folks told you? I was born into the LDS faith. My family were all LDS as well. I served a 2 year mission at 19 in the Dakotas and sat as a counselor in the bishopric after. I was a very strong believer. It wasn’t until I was 23 that I met a buddhist monk who taught me about objective thinking and began my journey into non belief. It took me about 2 years before I lost my belief in a god.
How do you argue that atheism makes more sense than Christianity? The same way a person argues that not believing in Santa Claus makes more sense than believing in Santa Claus. When you grow up, you realize that the story of Santa Claus has no evidence and includes impossible things. The same thing happened with me and the idea of god. I studied it, found it lacking, and stopped believing.

Well I hope that answers you’re questions. If not, feel free to ask for follow ups in the comment section below.

Answer by SmartLX:
Oo, oo, I want in on this one.

At what age did you decide that you believe there was no God?
Jake’s already nitpicked the specifics of the question, so…I honestly don’t know. There was about a 15 year gap from age 11-12 onwards when I barely thought about it, but when I did think about it at age 26 I realised I no longer believed. My faith had faded completely in the intervening years, so I had a drama-free deconversion.

When people try to convert you, what feelings do you encounter?
– Nostalgia, because people talked to me like that all the time in Catholic primary school.
– Deja vu, because whatever arguments or appeals they use I’ve probably already received them on this site at some point.
– Engaged, because if I do get something new to think about it’s great fodder for the site, or at least my own research.
If I get angry or upset in a situation like this, it’s not simply because I’m being proselytised but because the “witness” is going about it in an emotionally confronting or manipulative way. It still doesn’t work, but it puts a damper on my day.

Do you have any Christian friends, or have you completely removed yourself from anyone with any label near to that?
My wife’s Christian. About half of my family still is, and half of hers, and of course many of our friends. Australia’s far less religious than America, but that’s not saying much. We all get on, and there are plenty of non-adversarial discussions on the subject. I don’t go sword in hand 24/7.

Were you born into a Christian family, or were you born into an Atheist family and are just believing what your folks told you?
Catholic mother, atheist father, raised Catholic and believed what I was told until I found out Dad is an atheist (he only ever said so about twice) and therefore not everyone believes what I did. I think that started me on the road to disbelief, or at least skepticism.

How do you argue that atheism makes more sense than Christianity?
By essay, usually. My best attempt to do this directly is right here.

6 thoughts on “Age of non belief, christian friends, and family religion.”

  1. Hi Jasmine,

    Since I have a feeling you are a curious person (and, well, I’m bored), I will answer your questions as well.

    At what age did you decide that you believe there was no God?
    –I have actively believed there is no god since I can remember. I rejected the god notion as soon as I heard it as a child. Just as I rejected Santa C. and Easter B.. Atheists in general don’t declare that they beleive there is no god (from what I’ve seen). They tend to stress that they don’t believe there is a god. The difference is subtle, but it does exist. For me, I actively believe there is no god, just like I actively believe there is no tree that can speak chinese and do backflips. Why? Because I have a lifetime of experience that tells me that notion is ridiculous, and does not have any validity in existence as I have been exposed to it.

    When people try to convert you, what feelings do you encounter?
    –People rarely try to convert me. The occasional conversations I have tend to be people defending their beliefs rather than trying to change mine. My emotions are usually sadness/pity because I do find it a sad thing to be dependent on an imaginary friend to get through life. I also find it sad to reject this life and always be thinking “there is something better in the next life”. I get annoyed if theists show an absolute incapability to rationalize or reason.

    Do you have any Christian friends, or have you completely removed yourself from anyone with any label near to that?
    –Most of the people I know are Christian or Catholic (my friends included). I live on the coast in the U.S. so religion isn’t much of a cultural thing around here. We never talk about it, and things work out fine. There are, afterall, so many more interesting (and real) things to talk about than a god.

    Were you born into a Christian family, or were you born into an Atheist family and are just believing what your folks told you?
    –My parents were Christian/Catholic, but my Mom decided to raise her kids without any mention of religion (she was raised in catholic schools). She didn’t want her kids to go through what she went through. I never talked to my parents about religion until college. Through the years, I’ve learned my mom is “spiritual” now, but not religious.

    How do you argue that atheism makes more sense than Christianity?
    –I would argue that Christianity makes absolutely no sense. it is riddled with assumption, scare tactics, and emotional exploitation. There is no way to believe in Christianity without making a huge assumption about this being known as “god”. Questions for theists: How do you know anything about this god? How do you know that the things you “know” are true? Why do you accept it as true? I personally cannot accept anything as true when it has no evidence (especially if the notion of it directly opposes my understanding of nature). If it’s true, then please teach me (somebody). Until then, I’m happily an atheist. I’m not looking for any answers, I’m just living life. And I comprehend the world around given my own experiences and knowledge.
    —-
    –hope you read and enjoyed that!

  2. – At what age did you decide that you believe there was no God?

    I thought about the subject a lot when I was a kid, but I can’t point to a specific time when I arrived at a conclusion. For a long time, I leaned towards atheism, but I probably went back and forth a couple times. In any case, I was pretty young.

    -When people try to convert you, what feelings do you encounter?

    I live in New England, which is the statistically least religious part of the US. People here don’t generally bring up religion, tell me their religious affiliation, or ask about mine. I’ve lived in other parts of the country where I’ve seen street preachers and been asked by strangers whether I’m “a good Christian”, but where I live is just a different environment. Religious beliefs are more private. What I’m saying is that people don’t try to convert me.

    -Do you have any Christian friends, or have you completely removed yourself from anyone with any label near to that?

    As I said, I live in an environment where ppl don’t wear their religion on their sleeves. If someone I’m friends with was a Christian, I probably wouldn’t know it unless they had a religious tattoo or jewelry. That said, I don’t have any super religious friends, but I certainly don’t have a problem being friends with someone who’s religious.

    -Were you born into a Christian family, or were you born into an Atheist family and are just believing what your folks told you?

    The way this question is phrased presents only two options, and I don’t think either option describes my family. The problem is that just because someone rejects Christianity, or even organized religion, that doesn’t make atheist. An atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in any gods. Even if I know (or am fairly certain) that a member of my family isn’t religious, that doesn’t tell me whether or not they believe that there’s a God out there. For example, my mom rejects organized religion, but she still has spiritual beliefs and has told me that she believes in a higher power. I wouldn’t describe her as an atheist. So I wouldn’t say that I was born into an atheist family, but if you had asked me whether I was born into a secular family, then the answer would have been yes.

    Now on to the second part of your question: am I just believing what my folks told me. Well, I think the biggest factor shaping almost everyone’s religious belief is the environment they grew up in. People raised in Muslim communities to Muslim parents almost always become Muslim. People raised in Christian communities to Christian parents almost always become Christian. My Japanese grandmother grew up in Shinto/ Buddhist Japan, and it’s no coincidence that she’s Shinto/ Buddhist. I have no reason to believe that I’m any different. Had I been raised in a particular religious environment, I would have probably conformed to that religion. That being the case, the reverse is also true. That I grew up in a secular environment is a huge factor in why I’m secular.

    Having said that however, that doesn’t mean that I don’t have reasons for believing what I do. People of all beliefs are shaped by their environment, yet most people still feel they have reasons for believing what they do. I personally have done a lot of thinking about God, religion, etc. I feel that I have very good reasons for my beliefs.

    -How do you argue that atheism makes more sense than Christianity?

    Well, not believing in the Christian God is different from not believing in any god. The Christian God is simply one concept or version of what god is. My reason for rejecting the existence of a god in general is that I don’t feel that there’s convincing evidence that one exists. I have additional reasons for rejecting the Christian God in particular.

    Christians believe that a God exists, that he’s good, all powerful, wants us to have a relationship with him, and that having a relationship with him is important to our wellbeing. If all these things were true, then I’d expect him to simply inform me that he exists. The fact that he doesn’t means that something doesn’t add up, and that Christians must be wrong when it comes to at least one of these points. Most of my other strong arguments lead in this same direction- the world isn’t the way we’d expect it to be if a God existed who wanted us to believe in him.

  3. Quoting myself for Stephen Guy

    “Questions for theists: How do you know anything about this god? How do you know that the things you “know” are true? Why do you accept it as true?”

  4. We need to define “atheist” and “atheism.” A theist is a person who believes in a god or gods. The Greek prefix “a-” means without; thus an atheist is without belief and doesn’t believe in any gods — and atheism is just the lack of belief in any gods. Atheists can simply say that the existence of any god hasn’t been reliably proven. For many, atheism is also the conclusion that no gods exist, based on the complete lack of reliable evidence for any god. I take the strong atheist position — depending on how we define “God” we can prove that it does not exist, and I will use the typical definition just given for the Christian god Yahweh.

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