“ONE VOICE…MANY FACES…”

Question from Kamil:
I have done more research on Jesus NDEs, and found that while he does come up more than other deities from other faiths ex: Muhammad, that it may make some sense. I mean, Christians view Jesus on the same playing field as God, and they feel like they have a relationship with him. That may be why whenever they see a light in their NDEs they assume it is Jesus. Muslims do not feel like they have this kind of relationship with Muhammad, and they don’t worship him. Also there are no pictures of Muhammad, so during an NDE, their brains would be less likely to come up with seeing Muhammad potentially.

However, this leaves me with one question: what about the NDEs where Christians see Jesus, but he doesn’t look exactly like depicted in the paintings. Many report seeing him with dark hair, and some even say olive skin. Different people say he has different physical characteristics, and NDErs argue that he appears to each person differently so that they can understand who he is and so that their souls can learn in the best possible way. So person A may imagine Jesus as being tanned with black hair and brown eyes while person B may imagine him having fair skin with blue eyes, so he will manifest in those images for each person. My question is, does this mean that since he shows up to some people in ways that don’t reflect cultural imagery that NDEs with him are likely to be genuine?

And even though I feel Muslims would be less quick to jump to the idea that seeing a light or having a good “familiar” feeling is the result of Muhammad, it still seems Christian NDEs are much deeper with more life lessons and reinforcement of Jesus than Muslims are of their cultural beliefs. Does this prove Christianity?

Answer by SmartLX:
Kamil, did you start with the final sentence, “Does this prove Christianity?” and work backwards? Because if you read your question from the start up to that point, there is nothing approaching a proof there even if everything you write were true.

Jesus as described in the Gospels was one person, with one physical appearance. Shapeshifting was not one of his documented miracles. If different people who claim to see him are clearly not describing the same individual, this is a glaring inconsistency which contradicts the general claim that the same person is appearing to them all. The idea that Jesus is deliberately appearing to different people in different guises is an excuse for this inconsistency. The existence of an unsupported suggestion as to how the visions of Jesus might be both inconsistent and real is not evidence that they are real; it is at best an argument against utter disproof, which is a very, very long way from proof.

It would make the combined stories a lot more compelling in concert if the images of Jesus were separately verified as consistent AND did not fit the common media images. This would suggest that one person, independent of the cultural meme of Jesus, was reaching out to people. That still wouldn’t be proof, but it would be an interesting phenomenon which warranted further study. The reality is nothing like it.

6 thoughts on ““ONE VOICE…MANY FACES…””

  1. Ah, Kamil, Kamil, ah, ah, SAY WHAT YOU WILL, but, the existence of your ‘god’s’ and of a mortal woman’s Mary, son, JESUS has NOT been PROVEN by historical EVIDENCE, and even if such a person did exist, he certainly was not ‘god’, for the simple reason that such a notion, entity, is impossible to exist.

    Science say so, and I trust science, not some ‘holy’ books, written by illiterate shepherds.

    The fact that science does not know…(yet?)…the ORIGIN OF ENERGY, and, thus, of MATTER, does not means that ‘god’ created it. Nor that it exists, as it’s creator, or otherwise.

    HUMAN BRAIN IS NOT CAPABLE of grasping, fathoming the idea of SOMETHING EXISTING FOREVER IN THE PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE, WITH NO CAUSALITY APPLYING AT IT, as evidently does ENERGY and its other form MATTER, which IIIS THE UNIVERSE, because, without the energy and matter in otherwise empty space, there would be nothing, because empty space is nothing. But, there is something. US.

    So, since something evidently exists, and since creating that something out of nothing is impossible, then follows that the ENERGY has existed FOREVER in the past and will exist forever in the future.

    I myself, of course, don’t understand that, but since EINSTEIN said so, I TRUST HIM BLANCO, and sign whatever HE said.

    Btw, I found on the Internet Einstein’s words, written by his own hand in a letter, about his NON-BELIEF in any ‘god’, as creator of energy, matter and the Universe. His words about the Universe being organized in a ‘godly’ manner are, of course, a METAPHOR, aiming at describing his AWE at the workings of the NATURAL LAWS OF PHYSICS, that keep the planets in position by their gravity, and do many other things.

    EINSTEIN was in awe of the nature and the Universe, but also of MOZART. He played violin…

    And, I am in awe of both WOLFGANG AMADEUS MOZART AND ALBERT EINSTEIN.

  2. Kamil, on the first glance it seems that I owe you an apology, because you may not be a strong believer, and I previously said harsh word about you, but, still, you did a research, on BLOODY WHAT, and you mention BELIEVABILITY, WHY THE HELL DID YOU DO SUCH A STUPID WASTE OF TIME, AND ON WHAT, since there is NO AFTERLIFE, life of WHAT, WITHOUT MATTER AND SENSES AND PENISES AND VAGINAS AND LIPS TO KISS AND ENJOY THE PRESENCE OF YOUR LOVED ONES, HAHAHA, so you may not be a terribly strong believer, but YOU ARE NOT AT ALL AN ATHEIST, on Dawkins’ position 6, where I am, publicly, but, secretly, I DARE SAY I AM A PROUD 7, so, YOU ARE GUILTY BY MY BOOK, WHICH IS ABOUT IQ, so, sorry, no apology. lol

    1. @ Niki Kapetanou,

      I am not trying to waste time or prove anything. I am currently agnostic. I am not fully convinced that this religious stuff is true, but I am not fully certain it isn’t. I believe in evolution, big bang, all the good stuff. However, some of these NDEs throw me off, so that is why I want more proof that they are just brain generated.

  3. Kamil, thanks for your post. Every single answer I’ve given to your previous questions holds for this one too: There is no empirical evidence that supports the claims of NDEs, no one can prove that any of them actually happened, and there is plenty of reason given the neurological research on dying brains to suspect that NDEs are dream like hallucinations and nothing more.

    NDEs are not evidence of anything supernatural. It was true when you first asked about them and it is true now…

    1. Tim, it just seems that NDEs are much more lucid than dreams. Every dream I have makes somewhat sense, but there are always 1-2 details that don’t make sense that I can realize after the fact ex: my house looks different, or in one dream, I made it to another country without a passport, sometimes people look different, etc. In NDEs, very rarely do these things happen. People also have lucid conversations, some ask Jesus math questions or complicated questions, and get answers that make sense. I do understand what SmartLX says when he/she says that different faces of Jesus are really inconsistent, making the claim weaker, but then still, why do all these people say they saw Jesus, and he told them who he was with such a detailed and deep account, and Muslims or Hindus very rarely report seeing Krishna or Muhammad? My original guess was because they have different relationships with their deities, but then when I ask people of different faiths they say “yeah well, NDEs are not real anyways”, whereas Christians use them as absolute proof, and somehow, NDEs are more compelling than just looking at religious texts and books. Some Muslims have told me that they do expect to see Muhammad in heaven if they make it there, but then I thought, maybe they are conditioned not to see him. I still don’t fully know

  4. (Partly in jest …)

    … But how do we know that actually its NOT Krishna or Muhammad (or both, including Buddha) that appear in Christian NDEs … and may because they knows that Christians won’t accept them (Krishna/ Muhammad/ Buddha) they all say they are Jesus?
    That would explain the different appearance of Jesus for different NDEs.
    In-fact Krishna is known from Hindu myths to be an artful dodger of sorts … so it could be him for all you know.

    Also, as you have mentioned yourself … Hindus/ Muslims/ others don’t seem to give much importance to NDEs. So maybe, Krishna/ Muhammad, feeling unwanted, appear in a majority of Christian NDEs and impersonate Jesus?
    And maybe Jesus is in on it too … being tired of all the Christians wanting him in their NDEs.
    Maybe Jesus sends various deputies (angels) to various NDEs … that’s why they appear different to different people. And angels, as we know, are shared between/ mentioned in various religions (thus making all religions that share them true at once).

    I think its just a case of Jesus being too much in demand for NDEs and Krishna / Muhammad/ Buddha/ Joseph Smith, though respected, not being in demand for NDEs.
    Why would they play such a joke on humanity you say? Why not? Who’s getting harmed in this anyway? As you say, people have deep life-changing (usually for the better) experiences. A little white lie to significantly improve productivity and outlook ain’t so bad is it?

    One can’t say basis Jesus’s popularity in a particular “spiritual” activity that Christianity must be true.
    Hindus and Muslims and Buddhists and Mormons and etc. will give you tons of proof of stronger appearance of their deities/ performances by their deities in other “spiritual” pursuits.
    NDE is not the only event in the Religious Olympics y’know 🙂 … its probably one of the more popular ones, I grant you that.

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