Worldview Analysis: An Analysis

Question from Jerry:
I was recently debating a good friend of mine and asked him to justify Christianity or show evidence that it is the one one true religion. He claims that it is the only religion that demonstrates itself to be the best possible logical and rational choice based on worldview analysis. Worldview analysis is a tool to sift through the basics of each and all religions without having to take years of comparative religion courses or study to separate the religion which has the best chance of being true, based on the evidence. I’m researching a rebuttal to his strong argument by reading up on Naturalism, Structuralism and the ideas of Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung, as I believe my friends’ attempt to compare Poetic (Metaphorical) Truth with Physical or Natural Truth to be flawed. I was wondering how many different approaches there are to counter his position?

Answer by SmartLX:
Worldview analysis is a tool for evaluating a community’s values, priorities and outlook, developed by a scientist who’s a Christian but appears to use this tool for secular purposes. The version that’s applied to try and rank religions is either unrelated or a major bastardisation. Here’s an example where you answer a bunch of questions from the perspective of a given religion’s doctrine, and compare the answers to your own values.

If your friend is throwing around terms like “poetic truth” as a serious rival to empirical fact (likely “physical/natural truth” in his terminology), the criteria on which he rates different worldviews are going to be worthless to many. He also recognises that religions need to commandeer and redirect the meaning of the word “truth” to have a decent chance of being established as “true” themselves.

I think the most important thing is for you to distinguish at any given time which of two questions is being asked: what worldview best reflects reality, or what worldview is best or nicest to have. I think your friend’s system will drive the discussion towards the latter whenever it can, because the latter legitimately does not require evidence. Christianity may be a beneficial worldview for one’s physical and mental wellbeing in a number of scenarios regardless of whether it’s true, the following two most obviously:

– If Christianity is the majority religion, and especially if non-Christians are looked down upon or actively persecuted. It sucks to be in any victimised minority.
– If the tenets of Christianity match your own values very closely, in other words if Christianity gets a very high score when you do the questionnaire above. To believe that the universe as a whole reflects your own outlook can be a big boost to the ego.

If your friend is arguing along these lines, he’s answering your question by attempting to justify Christianity as a lifestyle choice, not verify its supernatural claims. And even if his reasoning on this is rock-solid and you eventually realise it would be better for you to be Christian, it’s only going to get you so far. You could live as a Christian, worship, donate, evangelise and all the rest of it, but if nothing has actually convinced you that God is real and Jesus is his still-living son then you would be a false Christian. And hey, maybe he’s okay with that, but I don’t think I would be if I were a believer.

15 thoughts on “Worldview Analysis: An Analysis”

  1. SmartLx. Your view of Christianity is flawed. I’m pretty sure you have seen those who are attempting as Christians. If they aren’t really Christians they will actually not be making that much of a difference in the world, their communities, or themselves. They may cause others to have a dim view of Christianity, or worse, to have made them loose interest in it all together. But where Christianity is not just trying to be lived, where in the heart of the Christian, Christ has been allowed to reign supreme, where God’s love has been allowed to overflow, then that makes all the difference in the world. The problem is you believe that all the good that is done because of Christianity can be done, by a world view. You don’t even recognize that when good is not being done, it is not being done because of the world view. People who, because of the world view, think for and about themselves, more than for others. That survival of the fittest mentality, that is accepted because, we are after all, “only animals” deep down, has made the world view to be accepted by the many, even with some Christians, to be the way it is.
    And before a person comes to Christ, that is the way it is. Because, the, me,” myself and I”, norm that is idolized and cherished by those who are not Christians, and by those Christians who have not given their all, prevents them from being able to even see that life would be better if all would live as Christ, through His Word, has told us how to live. Turn the other cheek, is seen as a “good” concept, but not reality. Love your enemy, sounds like the person has not walked in “my neighborhood”. And “do unto others as you would have others do unto you”, Has been more accepted as “do unto others before they do unto me”. That is the world view. And that is because the world has not been willing to accept that the Bible is not just a book. That is not fiction. But it is a love letter from God, to us to let us see, that the way that Christ lived He will live through each and every person who is willing to want to not accept what is this reality, but what is the true reality in Christ. The word view tells you that the good being done, is by accident, much like evolution, that all the things came together accidentally and something good came from it. But, the universe, life and the good that is done, became possible, because an intelligence, made the decision to love. Love even if it hurts. Love even if it calls for sacrifice. Love even if it means paying the ultimate price. And that is not asked for in the world view, or from any other venue. We only get this from following what God has shown us to be His biblical heavenly view. And which He now wants to impart to all those willing to make that ultimate sacrifice and surrender themselves to Him.

  2. Gerad, YOUR (highly IRRELEVANT) opinion of Smartxl’s view, (that is, of SCIENCE) of the world, is FLAWED, NOT HIS AND OF SCINECE, for the simple reason that SMARTXL and all the ATHEISTS, including myself, BASE their (our) atheism (absence of belief in ‘god’ and belief in the finds of relevant newest finds of SCIENCE), in the relevant field on the newest relevant scientific finds, themselves being based on evidence, while YOU and the LIKE of YOU ‘base ‘ your world ‘views’ on the LIES RELIGIOUS idiotic books tell the GULLIBLE INCOMPETENT SCIENTIFICALLY NOT LEARNED IMBECILES like yourself.

    I didn’t even WASTE my TIME and NERVE to read the rest of your post further than your first idiotic sentence which adds up to your supporting religious lies and telling Smartxl that HE is flawed, thus saying that SCIENCE is flawed.

    IT IS Y O U WHO IS FLAWED AND I WANDER WHY YOU ARE HERE, EXCEPT TO STIR AND MAKE YOURSELF RIDICULOUS. YOU ARE ACTUALLY A TROLL. SO, PLEASE, LEAVE. THANK YOU.

    HOW DARE YOU ?!

  3. I dare because what you are claiming as truth, is a lie. We know this because your, and all those others who claim evolution as your god, are never providing any kind of physical proof for support. I dare because of the way you become incest at the plainness and openness of the truth that I present. Your irrationality to prefer lies even though it has been shown that there is no support for this lies, shows that truth, will change your opinion, or it will cause you to be swallowed up more and more by the lie you cherish.
    I have asked you over and over again to provide what you can as support for your belief in evolution. And all you give are the same lies that you have been told with nothing as proof. All they provide are the same speculative assumptions that never have had evidence to back them up. And this is not proof. This is just pointing back at what others have told you. Proof is laboratory research that demonstrates that what was speculation was shown to be actual events. Life from non life? Ok. we understand the assumption. Now show us how this actually happened. A reduplication of the process that shows the assumption in action. Ok. All species coming from one first organism. We get the assumption. Now show us how it happened by either showing that it happened, at least once, or reduplicate the process with the micro type of evolution that you claim happened in the beginning. Remake the process. Make that first life and then make it go through same processes that brought the next species, and the next. Really. All you need to do is give us that first life actually changing into the next step in evolution. And while you are at it, provide the explanation that explains why many scientists say that it appears that all organisms appeared to have come to be all at once, just like the Bible narrative givens in the first Chapter of Genesis. Explain why Charles Darwin and other evolutionists then and now, say that the absence of transitional fossils that are supposed to show the movement from one species to another down through the millions of years, actually instead shows that each organism has produced itself and never any other organism. I hope I’m not taxing your mind, but I’m afraid that no one could do what I’v asked because the evidence you are saying is there has never ever materialized.

  4. And NIKI why are you so surprised or in denial about science being flawed. Science has always needed to go back and reform theories. Make new assumption. Erase old accepted theories and labeling them as false assumptions. Even evolution has gone through this process, with many scientists saying that they don’t understand evolution. They say that they know what it is supposed to do, but they say that they can’t see it happening as it has been said to have happened. So explain all of this, And I’ll come and dance at your wedding.

  5. Jerry,

    Be sure to hit your friend on the ENTIRE Bible when discussing this with him. As LX noted, he is probably angling for which faith is the nicest to have. But the Christian faith has a lot of stuff that Christians conveniently forget. The Bible condones slavery for instance. Christianity is not a nice religion, but modern Christians ignore those parts that aren’t nice. In reality, Christians aren’t really Christian in the first place (which is a good thing, unless you want to stone your kids to death for lying)

  6. Tim, why do you continue with the misinformation. The Bible is what God is using to let us know what happened. He tells us of how He loved man and of how He cared for man. It also shows how man would be if man ignores God. All through the Bible God speaks about what is not right for man to do. And one of those things is slavery. God has stated over and over again that man should not be enslaved to and by sin. “They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 2 Peter 2:19

    “20 When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness [you had no desire to conform to God’s will]. 21 So what benefit did you get at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? [None!] For the outcome of those things is death! 22 But now since you have been set free from sin and have become [willing] slaves to God, you have your benefit, resulting in sanctification [being made holy and set apart for God’s purpose], and the outcome [of this] is eternal life.” Romans 6.

    It is clear that God does not want us to be enslaved. But in the real world servitude is part of what happens because of sin. And God has over and over again told His people that we are to treat everyone with love and respect. God has told man to love one another many more times then He had mentioned slavery. And most of the times He mentioned slavery, it was to tell them that the slave should be treated fairly especially among God’s people. And all inhabitants of earth. “14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.” Luke 2:14
    “9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter.
    How can you be so one sided, when all through the Bible God is always telling man to love each other. Sure there are the results of wars. You can not just sweep that under the rug. But all through the Bible God has expected man to live as brothers. God gave His holy law telling man how to live with one another.
    So for ever text that you says showing the Bible as supporting slavery, there are many more telling us to love one another. And I’m sure you wanted to, you could confirm what I have just said. That is if you wanted to be honest.

    1. Gerald writes: [The Bible is what God is using to let us know what happened. He tells us of how He loved man and of how He cared for man.]

      Well let’s see what the Bible says about that…

      Deuteronomy 2:2 “and when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee, thou shalt smite them and utterly destroy them. Thou shalt make no covenant with them nor show mercy unto them.”

      EX 20:5, 34:7, NU 14:18, DT 5:9, IS 14:21-22 Children are to suffer for their parent’s sins.
      DT 24:16, EZ 18:19-20 Children are not to suffer for their parent’s sins

      Exodus 12:29 “And it came to pass, that at midnight the Lord smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who sat on his throne, unto the firstborn of the captive who was in the dungeon, and all the firstborn of cattle.” (This, of course, was AFTER your god hardened the heart of the Pharaoh so he wouldn’t release the Jews from slavery)…

      Exodus 17:16 “for he said, “Because the Lord hath sworn that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.”

      1 Timothy 6:1-2 “Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and His doctrine be not blasphemed. And those who have believing masters must not despise them because they are brethren, but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.”

      My my, the Bible certainly does show your god’s love and care for man, doesn’t it…

  7. Gerald writes: [It is clear that God does not want us to be enslaved. But in the real world servitude is part of what happens because of sin. And God has over and over again told His people that we are to treat everyone with love and respect. God has told man to love one another many more times then He had mentioned slavery. And most of the times He mentioned slavery, it was to tell them that the slave should be treated fairly especially among God’s people.]

    Oh, so since he has said love each other more than he has said own slaves, the owning slaves part doesn’t count. Is that how it works Gerald? You figure out what the word of god is based on majority rule, eh? And since he said to treat the people that they owned “fairly”, that made owning them OK in your opinion apparently.

    How utterly sick and disturbed you are, Gerald. Please go to a black congregation next Sunday and explain this to them. I’d like to hear what their response is…

  8. Tim, first find out about who you suggest to do something. My grandfather and great grandfather both have made me very much aware of what slavery is. Not only because of being part black, and being subjected to racism when I was in school. But also because of being part Cherokee Indian. And although I never have said to anyone that they have done something to me, I still appreciate what happened to my fore parents. But as I said, God never at any time told anyone to take slaves. He only told His people how to treat them. Just like there were people who killed and committed adultery and what ever else is wrong in our world, people decided what they were going to do. And God did not see fit to try to keep slavery from happening, as He tried to keep people from killing. But He directed how to treat one another. Just like He only allowed His people to kill only after other nations had threatened them. And once again. You only pick out the few times when what you think is bad, and try to use that little bit, to cover up the mountain of good that the Bible speaks of. The mountain of good that has made the good part of our communities to be what they are. Almost all of what is considered moral, we have, because of that mountain of good that was passed down to us from God’s Word. But you only want to smear, and tear down. With out considering that all of what is good, we have received from God. It is a shame that you refuse all the good and concentrate on what is the evil, and then try to blame God for the evil. When in reality God is the one that has told us what evil was, and wants us to turn from that evil. This is the ploy of satan the enemy. Making people believe that it is all God’s fault. When it was man who fell from what God wanted for man when satan did as you are trying to do, make it seem as if God is unfair and evil.

    1. Gerald writes: [But as I said, God never at any time told anyone to take slaves. He only told His people how to treat them.]

      Oh Gerald, you and the Bible need to get better acquainted…

      “However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.” (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

      Gerald writes: [And God did not see fit to try to keep slavery from happening]

      Galatians 5:22 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness”

      Your god must be the “do as I say, not as I do” type.

      Gerald writes: [Just like He only allowed His people to kill only after other nations had threatened them.]

      Please stop ignoring the copious evidence that your god is a bloodthirsty control freak who ordered people to be killed for all kinds of things:

      “A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death” (Leviticus 21:9)

      “If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness”
      (Proverbs 20:20) -OR- “All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense” (Leviticus 20:9)

      “A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death” (Leviticus 20:27)

      “You should not let a sorceress live” (Exodus 22:17)

      “Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel” (Deuteronomy 17:12)

      “They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13”)

      “For the LORD had said to Moses, ‘Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed” (Numbers 1:48-51)

      Gerald writes: [And once again. You only pick out the few times when what you think is bad, and try to use that little bit, to cover up the mountain of good that the Bible speaks of.]

      You continually claim that your god is the moral center of the universe (as you claim once again later in the post above), and that your god is all loving and cares for man, yet that same god calls for murder and slavery. Your god supposedly hates the sowing of discord, yet also sows discord. (GE 11:7-9 God sows discord. PR 6:16-19 God hates anyone who sows discord). Your god prohibits adultery (which comes with a death sentence) yet tells Hosea to take a wife of “harlotry”. Your god gets angry (all over the Bible), but in Matthew it says anger is a sin.

      We are talking about a supposedly all powerful, all good, all loving, all knowing god that morals spring from. This is a god we are talking about! Yet that same god, in the very book it commissioned into existence, tells us how it repeatedly contradicts itself by doing the things we are told not to do. There shouldn’t be ANY bad things about a god, in a book inspired (or written depending on who you talk to) by the very god that is the supposed source of morals.

      It’s not unlike saying we should consider the artwork of Hitler by itself and ignore the fact he started a war in Europe that killed millions.

      You simply cannot claim your god is morally superior and loves all humans. Read the Bible Gerald, and stop pretending some parts don’t matter…

  9. Tim once again, you speak only from using part of what is going on. Any killing that was going on was only because nations were bent upon the destruction of God’s people. God did not send His people out to exterminate all who believed in other God’s. But when God’s people were trying to pass through different territories, they were attacked time and time again. It was because of this and the open refusal to acknowledge that the God of Israel, was the true God, when even after seeing how God time after time delivered His people, yet they would not concede. But as long as the other nations made no attempt to prevent God’s people from passage, they were not engaged. And even more, they were offered the opportunity to know the true God. But never forced. Only when the way that other nations lived became so horrendous, was when God had to step in. But, the majority of times God only wanted His people to show them the type of God, God was.

  10. God didn’t say they should do so. He said you may do so, Tim. And as the God who says do as I say, and not do as I do, you need to remember He went to the cross to show us how far He would go to save us. All of us. Every human being, from all over the earth. There were other things that needed to be taken care of before He dealt with slavery. Many times during war, whole towns were almost wiped out. And to just throw out the ones captured, would have meant almost certain death. Or the conquered would return back to fight against them. Any way we could go on speculating about why God permitted slavery. But then again we could ask Him why He permitted man to continue to live after Adam and Eve disobeyed Him and followed satan. Or why did He allow the people to live so long before He covered the earth with water. All we can go by is by what He did in between. And why, even though crime runs rampant, and life seems cheap to many, does He still allow man to live. We can only look to His Word to find out this reason.
    And hear it is.
    Ezekiel 33. “Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?”
    2 Peter 3. “8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance”
    Proverbs 10:16, “The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.”
    Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
    Isaiah 59:2, “But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.”
    Sin is worse than cancer. It is worse than leprosy. It not only kills, it does so along with causing suffering. And as I’m sure you won’t agree with this, but there are only two choices. One, believing and trusting in God, and allowing Him to continue to give you life for eternity. Or rejecting God, and think you are making the best decision for your life, but instead you are in the end, rejecting the very presence of the One who can give you the life you want to continue to live. But it’s either life with God or no life at all. It just isn’t possible to live apart from God. Because in the end all who are lost, become lost because they reject God so much, that they even reject anything to do with Him. Even the life He is trying to provide.
    I do want to thank you though Tim. I have found it hard to justify and defend what God did. And thinking about it as you have made me do, has caused me to remember that the Bible is supposed to defend it self. God has told us What kind of being He is. And He has made it clear, that He is all loving and all merciful. But He is also Just. Which means that He can not ignore sin, or evil. He made it possible for us to be forgiven, but we can only receive that forgiveness if we surrender ourselves to Him. Not without doing so. Being forgiven must be accompanied with a desire to live differently than what we are being forgiven for.
    And God has demonstrated that He has loved us with an everlasting love. Jeremiah 31:3
    But sin can not be allowed to fester. It in the end causes death. There is no other way to live happy and in peace forever. And that is the way God is inviting us to live.

  11. Gerald writes: [God didn’t say they should do so. He said you may do so, Tim.]

    Please review my earlier post with the various Biblical passages in it. They pretty clearly read like orders, not suggestions.

    [And as the God who says do as I say, and not do as I do, you need to remember He went to the cross to show us how far He would go to save us. All of us. Every human being, from all over the earth.]

    Except for all the people he drowned in the flood, and all the Egyptians that died after he hardened the heart of the Pharaoh and THEN punished everyone when the Pharaoh wouldn’t let the slaves go free, and the little boys put to the sword along with the non-virgin women after some city was captured….Your god IS love, and wanted to save everyone. How you continue to ignore that blatant contradiction is honestly beyond my reasoning skills.

    [All we can go by is by what He did in between.]

    No, we can go by the whole book, Gerald. This is a god we are talking about, and one that claims it is all loving and all good and omni this and that. But actions as we can see speak louder than words, and the actions of your god deny every single claim of goodness made in the Bible.

    [And as I’m sure you won’t agree with this, but there are only two choices. One, believing and trusting in God, and allowing Him to continue to give you life for eternity. Or rejecting God, and think you are making the best decision for your life, but instead you are in the end, rejecting the very presence of the One who can give you the life you want to continue to live.]

    I don’t reject your god. I don’t reject anyone’s god. I simply don’t believe in them. I don’t reject leprechauns either, I just don’t see any reason to consider them to be a real thing. I can’t believe in something that can’t possibly be true given everything written about it in the Bible. Can I be convinced otherwise? Absolutely, but no one has even come close to achieving that. Quoting me passages from the same Bible that contradicts itself hundreds of times isn’t going to change that either. I consider the whole book, regardless of what any one passage says. And the whole book stinks.

    [And He has made it clear, that He is all loving and all merciful.]

    Gerald, I’m truly befuddled how you can reach that conclusion. The only clear thing about the god in the Bible is that it is a heap of contradictions and hypocrisy. I’ve shown you many such examples, and you have not been able to explain them away or offer up a valid alternate explanation for them, yet you still think that monster is “all loving and all merciful”. I’ve done all I can, it will up to you to open your own eyes one day…

  12. No. Tim, they are not orders. No one was to be stoned because they failed to have slaves. Orders, if God ever gave orders, were in the form of commandments. And no one was commanded to take slaves. Just as God at one time permitted inter marriage and then finally stopped this practice when it became too much of a danger to man, so too God permitted the taking of slaves. That is until He knew man was ready to listen. Then He let it be known that man should not treat man as slave. That is why God is bringing about an new heaven and a new earth, where there will be no more war, or the feeling that slavery was necessary.
    And once again. Tim. Look at the whole of what God has given. Don’t start picking just what you feel can support your warped views. God obviously created man equal. He obviously wanted man to live free and to enjoy his life for ever in blissful happiness. Sin put a snag in God’s plans. But only temporally. And He has put into motion when man will finally have the love that man longs to have. And that will be by living with God for ever.

  13. What about all the used to be atheists who have been just where you are today. And yet they gave their lives to this God who you claim is either non existent or not worthy of our faith and love. There have been atheists who were worse than you. And one day they put God to the test, which is really the only way to find God for yourself. He has promised that if you want to find Him, He will make it so.
    Go ahead. Dare Him to do it. Honestly ask Him to let you know that He is. He put Himself on the spot. He said Himself in His Word. Here I’ll provide for you the promise. Jeremiah 29:13New International Version (NIV)
    13 “You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart”
    You just have not met Him. But He is waiting for you to ask.

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