O Fátima

Question from Jakob:
I have a question about the supposed Sun miracle at Fátima. An crowd of about 70,000 people saw it; I should note that nobody saw the same thing and thousands saw nothing at all. The Vatican said it’s worthy of belief. Now 70000 people can’t hallucinate at the same time, can they?

Answer by SmartLX:
If thousands saw nothing at all at the so-called Miracle of the Sun that gave rise to the incarnation of the Virgin Mary now known as Our Lady of Fátima, then 70000 people didn’t hallucinate at the same time. It doesn’t mean none of them did.

A multitude of people with beliefs ranging from fervent to non-existent crowded into an empty field with high expectations of something miraculous happening, but no idea what. As soon as exposure, overlong gazing at the sun, rare weather effects like a parhelion (check the Miracle link above for a picture) or pure zealotry drove someone to declare that they saw something strange in the sky, thousands more looked up instead of around them, and were far more prone to have a similar experience. Afterwards, there was much discussion among the lucky subset about what they had seen, which would have resulted in much greater consistency between accounts once they went to write it down. Once stories got out, the crowds got bigger, the expectations were higher and the chances of strange perceptions only went up, until it all peaked on 13 October 1917. The initial stories mentioned the sun, so later you had thousands of poor sods staring right at the thing far longer than they should, which would have played havoc with their eyes.

Several specific explanations have been suggested over the years, but I just look at the circumstances and I think I would have been amazed if no one had had a strange experience. It was a strange thing to do, and to be told to do by three Portuguese preteens.

4 thoughts on “O Fátima”

  1. Not all miracles are caused by God. The Devil has the power to perform certain miracles. Or we might say make it look like he can. I’d like to point out the time when Moses was before Pharaoh in Egypt. God had him perform certain miracles, and it seems as if the magicians of Pharaoh achieved the same miracles. But we know, or at least we should know and accept that God is the giver of life, but Satan is a master at imitation, “2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”
    So, we can not accept that someone is of God just because they can astound us with some slight of hand or some great unquestionable miracle. We must use God’s word to determine if that person is from God and we must see that that person’s life glorifies God. So if that person rightly uses God’s word not making it contradict itself and if that person’s life doesn’t bring shame to God’s name then we can accept what that person says about God.

    1. Gerald writes: [Not all miracles are caused by God. The Devil has the power to perform certain miracles.]

      Please provide empirical data for the existence of gods, devils, or miracles. Until such time that you do your claims will have to be considered nothing more than baseless rambling about wishful speculation.

      [I’d like to point out the time when Moses was before Pharaoh in Egypt.]

      Please provide empirical data for the existence of Moses, Jewish slavery in Egypt, or any kind of mass exodus by Jews from Egypt. Until such time that you do your claims will have to be considered nothing more than baseless rambling about wishful speculation.

  2. My claims. My friend, you are sorely lacking in knowledge. Most of, if not all, the Archeologists of the world have accepted the Bible as one of the most valuable historical books in the world. It has time and again, shown that when man says “No. Can’t be” they later find that the Bible has been right on. And never has it been proven wrong. Even though rich and famous Atheists have squandered their wealth, trying to disprove the Bible they have passed on in history, with only leaving in their wake, surprise from those left behind, asking how they could have been so wasteful.
    And not being able to find evidence, does not mean that there is no evidence. So, just because there is no signed letter from anyone showing that they ran into a people being led by an unseen, God, does not mean that He wasn’t leading his people to the promised land. Please refer yourself to the following website. “http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2009/10/19/Recent-Research-on-the-Date-and-Setting-of-the-Exodus.aspx?gclid=Cj0KEQiA_KvEBRCtzNil4-KR-LIBEiQAmgekF6H-fnPnKLeDYIIE8u9ctxWkaeSUVXNsqtpLaGy3twMaAu7B8P8HAQ”
    “Biblical and extra-Biblical evidence clearly point to 1446 BC as the date of the Exodus. Critics say the lack of any reference to this event in the records of ancient Egypt is proof that the Exodus never happened. We should not expect to find such written records, however, because of the lack of historical records of any kind from Rameses and the Egyptian penchant for keeping negative events from their history by not recording them. An Asiatic settlement at the site of Rameses from the time of Joseph and records of Asiatic slaves from the period of the sojourn provide indirect evidence that the Israelites were in Egypt. A royal residence from the time of Moses fitting the Biblical description has now been found at Rameses. Royal inscriptions indicate that there were two Pharaohs with the name Amenhotep II—the first being the Pharaoh of the Exodus who perished in the Reed Sea in 1446 BC and the second a replacement who campaigned in Syria-Palestine to replenish the wealth, slaves and army lost in the Exodus.”
    This site gives some quite interesting details, about when an Exodus occurred in Egypt.

    1. Gerald writes: [My claims.]

      Yes, Gerald, your claims. You wrote them. That others out there may agree with you is of no matter. I’m not discussing the topic with them, I’m discussing the topic with you. When you post a reply under your name, you are taking ownership of them.

      [Most of, if not all, the Archeologists of the world have accepted the Bible as one of the most valuable historical books in the world.]

      Yes, the Bible is definitely a useful archaeological aide. No one denies or disputes this. Does this mean, however, that it’s accuracy is some matters (like the Babylonian Exile for example) mean that we should assume it is right about everything, all the time? No, it doesn’t mean that at all. Each individual claim is examined and weighed on it’s own individual merit. In other words, the validity of the Babylonian Exile does not make the story of a worldwide flood or slave Exodus from Egypt any more credible. They are each examined separately to determine validity and truth.

      [And never has it been proven wrong]

      There was no worldwide flood, Gerald. There was no Exodus from Egypt. A human can’t live in a whale for three days. Flying creatures didn’t come before land animals. The Earth is not flat. There are plenty of things stated in the Bible that are known falsehoods. That these things are obvious and well known fabrications doesn’t take away from the truth of the Babylonian Exile, and the Babylonian Exile doesn’t take away from the fact that the Exodus or the worldwide flood story are utter bull. Each claim is weighed independently of the others. And the Bible is full of things proven to be wrong.

      [Even though rich and famous Atheists have squandered their wealth, trying to disprove the Bible they have passed on in history, with only leaving in their wake, surprise from those left behind, asking how they could have been so wasteful.]

      Just out of curiosity, please list the top 5 “rich and famous atheists” that you are referring to.

      [And not being able to find evidence, does not mean that there is no evidence. So, just because there is no signed letter from anyone showing that they ran into a people being led by an unseen, God, does not mean that He wasn’t leading his people to the promised land.]

      Not only is there no evidence for the Exodus, there is also known data that shows that some of the claims of the Exodus can’t possibly be true. The floor of the Red Sea makes it impossible for anyone to walk across it. There is basically a canyon running down the middle of it. The city of Edom didn’t exist in 1446 BC. Pithom and Raamses are two cities that didn’t exist at the same time. Etc.

      There is no current evidence for Exodus. Trying to claim that there might be evidence out there that we just haven’t found yet doesn’t make the story any more plausible, especially given the facts in existence that already directly contradict the tale.

      [Please refer yourself to the following website.]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

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